In order to be truly independent from platforms like Reddit, communities need to be owned by their members in ways that platforms cannot take away.

Is this a fucking joke

Enterprise starts at 20k a year before traffic

My Mastodon server has just under 1.5k MAUs and has raised $4k so far this year. We’ve only been open for six months. This is not hard money to raise.

I think as we start defederating and making decisions we are setting up a dangerous situation where it becomes potentially easy to defederate for the wrong reasons.

Mastodon has operated this way for years and it’s worked out really well. They’re currently at 12 million or 13 million users right now. Read my comment I wrote on it here. Basically all the Nazis flee to the Nazi servers because they can’t follow or subscribe to their fellow Nazis or talk about Nazi stuff. So they leave. This makes it safer for users and easier for mods to keep their users safe.

And like… sure, there’s drama. People defederate for dumb reasons. But Mastodon accounts are portable and you can hop around from server to server easily. And 99% of the time people don’t defederate for no reason.

Some religions and communities might have beliefs that appear to be pseudoscience or even discrimination.

This is often because they are. My old fundamentalist Christian cult I grew up in was incredibly homophobic. They ‘looked’ like they had beliefs that were discriminatory because they were. You do not get a ‘be a bigot free’ card because your religion says you are one. You can change your shitty religion (conservative fundamentalist religions have done so tons of times in the past). Minorities cannot change who they are. There are tons of other religious communities that do not discriminate against minorities so that standard is not unreasonable.

I don’t think “greed” is quite the right word. “Greed” would be the right word if they were trying to make themselves more profitable.

I mean regardless of whether it’s greed or not it’s happening because they need to generate a profit period lol.

“Why do investors invest so many hundred of billions of dollars into companies that cannot be profitable without becoming super-shitty? And why do users join them knowing that they’re going to become super-shitty one day?”

David Harvey has been ringing the bell on this for at least a decade lol. Effectively capitalism runs out of profitable investments when you need continued YoY growth. Like finding trillions of new investment opportunities a year is just not realistic. So capitalists fund bullshit projects and flow their money into markets where the perceived value is significantly greater than any of the actual socially necessary value. And that distance grows greater over time, until people realize ‘what the fuck are we funding’ (like what happened with crypto, or the metaverse), and then that gap immediately shrinks and the unlucky capitalists lose their money. And that will continue happening.

To expand on this, it’s not just capitalism - it’s greed.

No it’s just capitalism lol. Every company has to continue reaping in profits for capitalists or else it dies. This is just Reddit’s way of doing that.

I realized now just how much I sounded like some kind of Lemmy early adopter supremacist in this thread, for that I apologize. I didn’t mean to be a dick.

God I love this about the Fediverse lol. On Twitter or Reddit you don’t get actual human interactions like this.

EDIT: Also important to note, I feel like this is gonna be a slow, slow process. We really have no idea when sign-ups will settle and could be looking at months or days of Reddit hemorrhaging users.

THIS THIS THIS. A lot of folks call the migration to Mastodon from Twitter a ‘failure’ because Mastodon didn’t immediately jump to 100 million monthly active users lol. There was a spike, but a lot of folks went back to Twitter. But we now see more spikes every week or so when some stupid shit happens on Twitter, and with every spike, more and more people stick around. We get about 2000 new users an hour on Mastodon across all servers. Now at 12 million MAUs, up from wayyyyyy less than that earlier last year. Growing slowly is the key, a migration won’t be instant.

Really begging folks not to take this kind of approach to having this conversation on Lemmy. We had literally this exact kind of discourse on Mastodon and it has severely impacted the public perception of Mastodon, to the point where there are tons of people that think it’s full of ‘NIMBYs’ who are super strict and expect you to behave a certain way.

People have a very very hard time understanding that software like Lemmy or Mastodon isn’t a community or a platform, but a network of individual communities that everyone has a different view into. A lot of my friends were burned joining Mastodon because they interacted with a bunch of boring white people who weren’t funny, and it’s hard for me to explain to them that you need to join a different instance and follow different people lol. Also people don’t understand instances or the fact that instances are run by volunteers.

When I started my Mastodon server (right before the big Twitter ‘migration’ lol) I loved what I found on Mastodon. The community was amazing. But this exact specific reaction (down to the stuff about refugees) ended up poisoning that community and the folks who potentially wanted to join it.

I’m still new to Lemmy, but I think it’s important to approach this with an open mind. Communities grow and change over time, and I think we should be more open to that and lead with empathy. And I understand the frustration with this is VERY real (trust me as an admin I MORE than get it). But I think a lot of what we’re getting from Reddit is very positive, not the negatives, due to the fact that we have more moderation control here and because it’s mostly the cooler users lol.> Yeah we already went through this exact thing with Masto and Twitter. The complaining about defed is particularly annoying to me, like… defederation is a feature of the fediverse, not a bug, lol… Hopefully the “this doesn’t work exactly like MyFavoriteSite” folks will clear out eventually like the last wave.

Also to be fair I don’t think that that means this becomes a neoliberal shithole, but I think the majority of folks joining mean well and like the vibe. They’re joining because of the vibe.

Users actually run a lot of larger instances on the Fediverse off of donations! I run a larger Mastodon server and we get literally double our monthly costs in donations. For every month we stay open, that is two months longer we stay open. Absolutely wild. We have about 1.5k users, with about 20-30 of them donating maybe $5-10 monthly. That’s 2%-ish of the user base donating. Lemmy is LEAGUES easier to host given that it’s written in Rust and is incredibly resource efficient. So I can only imagine it’ll be even cheaper to host on donations.