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  • Well, what I think is ncecessary to end the duopoly is to show both of them that I'm not going to vote for either of them, until one of them starts to do what I want. And voting 3rd party sends a signal as to what policies they should adopt if they want my vote.

  • Obama: "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

    I've watched the Democrats move to the right since then

  • Not sure who they think they're winning over with that.

    Their rich donors

  • I'm not sure what causes people to blindly worship the party to the degree that they do...

    It's because politics has become the new "religion" for most people. I grew up in a cult, and the amount of crossover in thinking is astonishing: "Our dear leaders couldn't have done anything wrong, it has to be everyone else that is wrong!"

  • There’s nothing stopping people from getting elected to the party and forcing change.

    Except for, ya know, the Democratic leadership, demonstrably.

  • You are correct that 3rd parties can't win. But how is voting for either of the other two options winning? I've seen both in power for the last few decades, and it's a shit-show either way.

    You may not like the other options, but that doesn't mean that they don't exist.

  • You can keep dancing around the fact that they cheated all you want. I find it very telling that you can't even keep your original argument straight.

  • No, the court agreed that they are allowed to cheat.

    • Mamdani wins
    • AOC wins
    • Sawant wins
    • Walton wins
    • Sanders has to have a primary rigged to keep him from winning
    • Sanders polls better in Red states that Trump and Hillary

    Sander's and people like him can't win right now

  • "We don't have to play fair. We can cheat if we want."

    "It didn’t say they cheated."

  • "There’s no right to not have your candidate disadvantaged or have another candidate advantaged. There’s no contractual obligation here…it’s not a situation where a promise has been made that is an enforceable promise."

    They argued this in court. If they ran a fair election, they could have just provided the evidence. Instead they told the court that they don't have to run fair elections. Why would they say that, if they ran a fair election?

  • Obama: "The truth of the matter is that my policies are so mainstream that if I had set the same policies that I had back in the 1980s, I would be considered a moderate Republican."

    I've watched the Democrats move to the right since then

  • They got a lot of money by selling out their users. They are still getting a lot of money by selling out their users.

  • This decision will be a stain on our party for years to come and damage our ability to organize for Democratic wins this year, next year, and beyond.

    Of course it will. This is like, the Democrats whole thing.

  • That's a bad analogy. The sandwich with no substance in it is neutral. If the Dems were neutral, I'd have no problem with it. But they are actively evil. We don't call them the "lesser evil" because they are neutral. They are actively:

    • bombing children
    • supporting rapists
    • supporting facists
    • draining our resources to help their rich friends
    • destroying the environment
    • torturing people
    • backing a genocide
    • backing the abuses of the military/intelligence agencies
    • backing surveillance systems

    If you think that equates to a "A sandwich with absolutely no real substance. It’s just two slices of bread with the thinnest wafer of baloney you’ve ever seen." then I'm going to stop engaging with you because we fundamentally see reality differently. I see attrocities, and you see no real problems.

    They do have a turd in the sandwich, but because it's a smaller turd than the other sandwich, I'm being told that the turd in the Dem's sandwich doesn't exist. And I can see it with my own eyes, as do many others, who agree that maybe we should be allowed to ask for a sandwich without a turd. I'm not asking for a burger, I'm asking for someone who isn't going to destroy people's lives, but the Democrats aren't interested in that.

  • Who said Trump was gonna be better about any of that? I certainly didn't. But the Democrats were going to keep supporting those systems, and helping the Republicans build them out. The ones helping the facists aren't going to fight against and stop the facists. That makes them far from "less than ideal".

  • "Please stop supporting genocide" "No"

    "Please stop deporting people without due process" "No"

    "Please stop bombing children" "No"

    "Please stop gaslighting us about the state of the economy" "No"

    "Please say you'll do something to stop healthcare from being the biggest cause of bankruptcy" "No"

    "Please make the economy work for the people, rather than the rich" "No"

    "...anything less than their ideal"

    I'm not sure you understand what the phrase "less than their ideal" means.

  • My point is that the Democratic Party is changing, albeit slowly, by virtue of the electorate itself changing.

    lol, sure Jan.

    Call me when they stop funding:

    • Genocide
    • War
    • Bailouts for their rich friends
    • Torture
    • Surveillance Programs

    and start funding:

    • Healthcare for all
    • Fixes for the housing crisis
    • Real fixes for the environment and climate

    Until then, I'm going to pretty openly continue to not take you seriously.

  • Well, we also have votes. But if you ignore all of the data showing how we show up to vote when given the option, but are not given the option, then you won't see it.