A few examples include s*x questions on askreddit, “this” comments, nolife powermods, jokes being more frequent than actual answers

  • smoll_pp_operator@vlemmy.net
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    1 year ago

    Allowing racists and fascists a seat at the table under the guise of ‘fairness’ or ‘free speech’. Reddit became polluted with far-right astroturfing in the last six years.

    It is not tolerance to welcome those persons who seek to harm you.

      • Galluf@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        That’s a paradox. You cannot tolerate everything. That’s why there’s no such thing as not being bigoted. It’s literally impossible to tolerate everything.

        You just have to pick what things you’re not going to tolerate. Now if only we could always agree on what that is.

        • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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          1 year ago

          Intolerance. Intolerance is the one thing you don’t tolerate. It being a rhetorical paradox doesn’t mean it’s difficult to implement.

          • Galluf@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            It absolutely is because there are things that you where you cannot tolerate both oposing viewpoints. There’s also things that you do not want to tolerate.

            Unless you believe it’s not okay to be intolerant of murder.

            I hope that helps illustrate how it’s not just a rhetorical paradox. It’s a conceptual one too. Much of the time, it’s not tolerance vs intolerance. It’s picking between two flavors of intolerance.

            • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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              1 year ago

              Well I mean if you’re expanding the argument to things as well, then yeah, it becomes rather unwieldy. But if you constrain it to intolerance for people, then it remains rather simple.

              • Galluf@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                Not at all. I’m not talking about just things. I’m also talking about about people.

                It is not simple to determine the extent to which to tolerate different groups of people. Unless you’re saying that you want to be equally tolerant of murderers, races, all religions, and people who like pineapple on pizza.

                • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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                  1 year ago

                  Murder falls under intolerance. Religion can exist without being intolerant, but often doesn’t. The smell test really is pretty simple: if you’re not actively hurting someone besides yourself, you should be tolerated. Along with that, we decide that intolerance for other reasons (ie, because of a person’s genetic makeup or mode of expression) is itself harmful.

                  Now we can find tune and dicker about where that line of injury is, and of course there are special cases where the alleged hurt is spread around and it’s hard to decide how to adjudicate that, but that’s what the law and all its apparatus is for, after all.

                  • Galluf@lemmy.world
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                    1 year ago

                    I wouldn’t say murder falls under intolerance. It certainly can, but not all the time.

                    if you’re not actively hurting someone besides yourself, you should be tolerated.

                    Who gets to define what constitutes not actively hurting someone besides yourself? Is it just as defined by you or do other people get a say? What do you do when someone decides that not wearing a hijab or extra-marital sex is actively harming others?

                    I hope that illustrates why this is not simple at all. It’s incredibly complex.

                    And as I was saying in my initial comment, it’s literally impossible to objectively define tolerance. But, you have to choose to tolerate some things and not others (because they’re mutually exclusive). So you end up with different forms of intolerance of behaviors that you deem intolerant.

                    Along with that, we decide that intolerance for other reasons (ie, because of a person’s genetic makeup or mode of expression) is itself harmful.

                    And we decide that intolerance is acceptable for many other reasons. You don’t tolerate ignorant people. You don’t tolerate people who cannot arrive on time. You don’t tolerate people who are too rude. Intolerance of those aspects

                    Now we can find tune and dicker about where that line of injury is, and of course there are special cases where the alleged hurt is spread around and it’s hard to decide how to adjudicate that, but that’s what the law and all its apparatus is for, after all.

                    The special cases are the ones where it’s actually clear. The majority of the cases are where we struggle to know where to draw the line.

    • lynny@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Reddit was full of racists even back in the early 2010s. /r/Coontown was a prime example of that.

    • Galluf@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Whether or not it’s tolerance isn’t directly important.

      The mistake that people make is assuming that tolerance is inherently good. It is to a certain degree, but there are many things that you do not want to tolerate. That’s where we want to be.

      However, many people think of themselves as tolerant and find it difficult to make that conceptual realization.

    • Big P@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      In the last 6 years? If anything, reddit got less tolerant of the far right since inception, it just became a bigger deal when they banned them in the last 6 years

      • smoll_pp_operator@vlemmy.net
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        1 year ago

        You believe what you want to. Nothing I say is going to convince you, random internet person.

        I had used reddit since the near beginning, and over time the prevalence of ‘alternative facts’ and other right-wing narratives has risen sharply. You also have communities like r/conservative that participate in open calls to violence and perpetuate right wing dogwhistles for maximum rage bait. The sheer slide of r/politicalcompassmemes going from people role-playing different ideologies to thinly-veiled alt-right propaganda speaks to this shift.

        Catering to conservatives and right wing players results in the enshittification of the website.

        • Big P@feddit.uk
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          1 year ago

          I think that generally the internet got more of those types of people and they got louder, reddit used to have subreddits whose names were just slurs or subreddits blatantly dedicated to racism. The idea of a “dogwhistle” on reddit didn’t exist because the racists just said and did racist things without fear of being banned.

          • Serinus@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Yeah, you’re both right. There’s less outright hate now, but more propaganda.

            Political Compass Memes is the Fox News version of fair and balanced. It’s intended to convert people with a thin veil of “both sides”. And that thin veil will be enough for a lot of impressionable kids.

      • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        Well yeah, to continue with the fire metaphor, it’s hard to put out a fire once you’ve already let it get out of hand. PLENTY of people were warning about those communities before they grew into the mob that stormed the capital, for example. Reddit only stepped in and did something about them when it became a bad look for them to let them keep shitting on the lawn.

    • c0mplexx@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      what? reddit was an american “left” “look at how good of a person i am for hating on racists and pedophile” (like congrats?) circlejerk
      the racists and fascists were contained in their subreddits and were ignorable

        • c0mplexx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          maybe if you were actively looking for them or are very easy on the trigger of calling people racist, yeah they weren’t contained I guess

          • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            Apathy toward intolerance only allows it to fester. You don’t walk past a pile of embers and shrug just because nothing’s currently on fire.

              • TheUniqueOne@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                1 year ago

                Protecting minorities so our communities can be a diverse place makes them so much better though. No one claims it will end racism that is just a ridiculous straw man.

                • c0mplexx@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  they almost always were in their own little corner
                  there’s no protecting minorities if they choose to go to racist places
                  on the typical subreddits mods or even the admins themselves were fast to remove comments or posts so they were “protected”

                  • TheUniqueOne@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                    1 year ago

                    I mean not really that’s not how it was at all. Default subreddits were filled with racism. Comments and posts were not removed unless the comment was straight up saying slurs. Comments filled with less overt racism were heavily upvoted.

                  • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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                    1 year ago

                    If you were lucky enough to never encounter them, then well, congratulations. That certainly wasn’t my experience, or, I’d wager, a common experience.

    • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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      1 year ago

      I’ll counter and say that calling anyone you disagree with a racist/fascist in order to feel superior.

      That shit was rampant on Reddit and seems to be slowly creeping into Lemmy as well.

      Lol never mind, I guess it’s rampant here as well.

      • Vlyn@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I’ve never been called either in nearly 12 years on Reddit (and being plenty active with ~120k comment karma).

        Maybe if you often get called that you should re-evaluate your opinions?

        • c0mplexx@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          brother I got called a racist for saying a football (soccer) player who happens to be black is shite
          and football fans are way less trigger happy with accusations of racism than americans seem to be, even if they themselves are american for some reason

        • Feathercrown@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Not in my experience; you just have to interact with the right people and they’ll sling those accusations around like mashed potatoes in a food fight.

        • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          You are a fascist.

          It’s easy to blend in when you blindly follow the narrative.

          • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            As if there is ever one “the” narrative. We’re all following narratives, brother.

        • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I know you think you’re being clever, but you see it in almost every front page thread on Reddit.

            • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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              1 year ago

              Not sure how you think any of those comments are some sort of gotcha.

              Explain how they are racist/facist instead of just being an emotional child who follows the hive mind.

              Also, like a typical Reddit user, you will dig through someone’s post history to find something to discredit them instead of having an actual point.

              • Serinus@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                “dig through”. Man, your comment after this one is defending oil companies. And a few comments before is a ridiculous propaganda talking point.

                There’s a very important reason post history is public. It makes this site harder to manipulate than 4chan. It’s so much easier for one actor to overpower 4chan it’s ridiculous. A Reddit operation is still certainly possible, but much more challenging.

                • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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                  1 year ago

                  Lol defending oil companies. You guys are ridiculous.

                  I guess pointing out how supply and demand works is “defending oil companies”.

              • EremesZorn@beehaw.org
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                1 year ago

                A post history enables accountability, which is something a lot of people severely lack.
                If you take issue with being held accountable for what you say, then perhaps you need to look at what you’re posting.
                I have only read the comments here and didn’t look at your post history, because I frankly don’t care enough to, but I would imagine people are assuming you do not argue or debate in good faith. That may be an incorrect assumption, for all I know, but you’ll need to make your positions more clear to people that might feel some type of way about what you’re sayin’.

      • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        If that’s an issue that actually affects you often enough to complain about it, maybe, uh, maybe you should, idunno, search your soul or something.

        You know what they say about someone who is always complaining that every room smells like dog shit when he walks into it.

        • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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          1 year ago

          I never said people called me racist. I was a Reddit lurker. But you see it all over the place and unfortunately here too.

          Such a sad way to live, constantly filled with anger and hatred.

          • CeruleanRuin@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            Don’t be so quick to dismiss people’s anger. It comes from a place of their own truth. They probably have a good reason for it. Acknowledge the truth first and then address the complaint.

            • SpaceToast@mander.xyz
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              1 year ago

              I’ll give you that, but it unfortunately leads to a lot of prejudice and antisocial behavior.

              My comment is a perfect example. All I said was that people shouldn’t call others facist/racist, and that was all it took for everyone to assume that I am.