I’m considering getting a laptop for Linux and want to know a few things before I do. Some important info before I start: I don’t plan on using the laptop for anything too intense, mainly writing, digital art, streaming, browsing, and maybe very mild video editing (cropping at least and shortening at most). I would also prefer the laptop to be inexpensive, preferably under 1000 USD
I mainly want to know if whether I should get a laptop by a manufacturer that specializes in Linux or a laptop that runs a different OS (exp: Windows) to install Linux on later. I’ve also scouted out quite a few distros and have a good idea of which ones I would like using
I’ve already looked at a few mainline Linux hardware producers like System76 but want to know if it’s worth it before sinking money into it
Check out Framework if you haven’t already! https://frame.work/linux
They’re designed to be upgraded and repaired over time so they’re super modular. You can also save some money if you’re not afraid to put it together yourself.
How’s the Camera working on these? On most recent laptops it seems not to be just a camera sensor like in the good ol’ days, but a full blown i2c module, which does a lot of processing before delivering the images, and with rather obscure code that people is really struggling to build drivers for.
Works fine on Linux for me, you sure you mean i2c? I think you mean v4l2 or something, i2c max bitrate is like 500kbit/s. I can check but I’m pretty sure it’s usb or something similar, it works on Google hangouts on Chrome at least, I use my fw for work.
Perfect, thank you! Some laptops these days have increasingly complex camera modules that make having drivers for them increasingly messy.
While I support the framework laptop, OP did also say under a thousand dollars. You cannot really get a framework laptop for that price.
Edit: Thousand, not hundred
You can get a diy base framework 13 with either intel or amd for $849 w/o ram and the ssd, and just purchase those part separately for just about $1000 total.
And if you’re replacing one, you could possibly pull the ram and SSD from it to use in the frame work.
The SSD will need to be an M.2 form factor, and the ram will need to be SODIMM DDR5; both of which are relatively new form factors in the grand scheme of things. The ssd from a former laptop will probably fit, but SODIMM DDR5 is maybe two years old at this point. The older intel models that still use DDR4 are out of stock at this point on the framework website.
True. But framework is an investment in a sustainable future since the mobo is upgradeable.
Mine in in the mail. Got the shipping notification last night. So excited! I didn’t the past year saving up for it. I’m glad to see that everything works out of the box with Fedora.
I got their 12th gen diy last year and it was really easy to assemble. I was pleasantly surprised at how well thought out it was.
While the laptops being so modular is really useful, the list of supported OS seem a bit narrow, although that doesn’t mean I’m not considering. Thank you!
Those are the officially supported distros. You can install other ones just fine. I doubt you’d find another laptop that had even just more than 1 officially supported distro.
Yeah, but I’d still like the peace of mind from knowing for sure other distros work, y’know?
Sure, fair enough. There are other distros supported by the community if you want to check that out too.
You honestly won’t find better than the support for framework in the laptop space. The arch wiki entry for it is fantastic, and having multiple supported distros is almost unique.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Framework_Laptop_13 The Arch wiki is the GOAT
That does give me a bit of comfort. I’ll definitely have to put it higher up on the board, then! Thanks again, lol
What distro are you considering? I know e.g. Arch has a wiki page dedicated to the FrameWork and basically everything works.
Lenovo is renowned for their excellent linux compatibility. I’m sure you’ll get a bunch of proponents here saying the same.
BUT, oh boy. Don’t get me started…
Too late. Having used various models of thinkpads in recent years, their inconsistent keyboard layouts will drive you absolutely insane. I swear, at this point they’re just fucking with us.
I’ve got one in pieces somewhere, that has/had the ~ key next to the FN key on the bottom row! How the fuck are you supposed to use Linux if you’re ~ key is down there? It’s fucking stupid.
Not to mention their keys have a tendency to break off with just the mildest of fist slams.
AND the latest work-issued recent model is fucking with us again! It has the FN key ON THE LEFT SIDE of the Ctrl key on the left. Who does that? The Ctrl is always the left-most bottom key. Now, every time I fucking go to press Ctrl+something, I end up hitting FN instead.
Fucking morons! At this rate this laptop will also end up in pieces.
So, tldr; Stay the fuck away from Lenovo if you want to use Linux and not end up in prison for vehicular homicide.
Oh :( As annoying as that is I can’t bring myself to completely take it off the board. Thanks for the warning, though! Nobody’s mentioned that so far :)
It’s not like other keyboards are better, I know why they are pissed and while it is annoying, Thinkpads X, T and P series are great linix machines.
What I don’t like is soldered RAM. I got T490 after almost a decade of using X220, because it, at least, had one ram slot. Now I am rocking 48GB of ram in reliable hardware which os completely supported in linux (except bt having some issues, but still).
What issues are you having with BT? I recently bought a second hand T490 and Fedora with KDE has been great! I have not extensively used BT, but I always use a BT keyboard and it has been fine :)
Microphone on my headphones is not working, it is connecting but codec is off. It us not working with second parmir different manufacturer.
I got bt usb dongle and both work with it.
I don’t know if the problem is in kernel driver or bt deamon…
Hear me out. Go to the BIOS. Swap Left Ctrl and FN! Thanks me later :)
Thank you! It’s a bloody miracle!
Hahaha, I’m the opposite I’ve been so used to the thinkpad fn that I hate using other laptop keyboards.
The Fn and Carl keys can be switched in software. I have a work-issued Lenovo with a similar layout. They can be soft-swapped in the BIOS. There’s also a desktop utility to do the same but I don’t know if they have a Linux version of it. I totally agree, the physical layout is annoying but it has a simple fix.
I’ve had to borrow computers with fn and ctrl swapped. I understand shat you mean
I have X1 Carbon Gen 6 and I love the laptop overall, I’ve been using it for 4 years so far. I don’t mind having fn and ctrl swapped, but my keyboard has also a stupid placement of PrntScr. It’s on the bottom row, right to the space bar. I can’t count times when I accidentally opened spectacle 50 times, because I hold the wrong key.
I have also happened to have a try with some newer thinkpads and they felt like the company made them worse on purpose. The material felt cheap, keyboard choppy and the trackpad absolutely abysmal with its lack of precision.
With the hardware support under Linux… yeah, they do work, but when you pick a new model, expect some missing features, worse power management, quicker thermal throttling etc. For me it significantly improved over time. With 10yo refurbished thinkpads Linux is great though, they say
Funny, I seriously considered getting one over the past year, but the past couple of months I’ve been reading all kinds of complaints about them. Seems there is a problem with consistent quality.
Used Thinkpad from eBay is your best bet to start imo.
No question, excellent compatibility, will last you a while, you can get a nicer one once you get comfortable.
Spent $500 on this one to hold you over till you can afford a framework, or spend less, you can still get by with a decent one for $250 or so.
I agree, I have two Thinkpads, an older T450S that lives out in the shop for me to reference things, and my mainstay which is a T480S. If OP does want to do video editing or gaming or anything that might be more intensive, I also have had a Legion 5 and similarly had absolutely no problems with Linux on it.
This, got me through my entire cybersecurity & digital forensics undergrad
What did you do to the previous owner? oi
Some things are better kept a secret ;)
Jkjk it was the old work laptop of someone i knew so i got it from them for the extremely low price of $0, slapped linux onto it, and went about my business
Yeah I’m considering getting one simply bc of the affordability. They also seem to be pretty highly regarded (if the amount of recommendations I’ve gotten says anything)
You could get the education edition. I have a new yoga 11e and it has a great keyboard, and it’s just… way too good for the money (250 bucks). I love that if I break or lose it I can just get an idenical one for super cheap in a couple days. But they’re made for kids so they’re pretty durable anyway.
I’m relatively happy with my System76, but based on your needs you could get a lot of value from a $500 used ThinkPad on Ebay.
I get a lot of value from my 150.00 ThinkPad T430s but then all I do is web browsing and occasionally compiling software on it so not exactly intensive things. It’s a basic machine. A ThinkPad T series closer to 500.00 would be very functional.
Yeah, I have a couple T420 ThinkPads, and for $100 they’re pretty sweet, but they show their age.
Ooo, what do you like about System76? I know they’re well respected, but I’d like to hear about it from somebody who actually uses the hardware, especially since Pop!_OS has caught my attention more than once
The main thing I like is the hardware support. I knew before purchasing that everything would work, and that helped me feel okay dropping a pretty penny on a new laptop. Besides that, I’d say they’re fine. They aren’t designing and manufacturing their own hardware (at least not back when I bought one); the laptops are pretty standard off-the-shelf stuff. System76 just promises that it’ll all work out-of-the-box. I’ve never used Pop!_OS, so I can’t speak to that. Arch and Debian work great, though.
The only negative I can think of is: once the battery started to go after several years, they didn’t have a replacement in their store, but because it’s a generic laptop, there were new ones available on Amazon. It just would’ve been nice to get it from System76.
All-in-all, I’m a happy customer. I’m keeping my eye on Framework, though. The MNT Reform is also interesting. I don’t like how thick it is, but that’s because it uses 18650s for the battery, which would solve the problem of buying a new battery just to find that all the batteries were manufactured at the same time, so there are no working replacements.
Their battery can be replaced with any battery? How to do that? Other manufacture OEM battery?
@letbelight
18650s are a standard size. Several companies make decent ones.It’s like taking AA cells, but lithium.
@delialah… you mean refilling the battery right?
I tried that last time… I have no luck… Poor X220 can’t get 10 hours with 9 cell like old times :'(
It’s not any battery. They just didn’t do the original manufacturing, so you can find compatible replacements elsewhere.
I bought the System76 Kudu laptop back in 2016, but it is actually a W670RZ model laptop manufactured by Clevo Co. in China (unlike my previous laptop which was a MacBook Pro manufactured by Apple in China). System76 wasn’t the only company selling the W670RZ, so they’re not the only ones you can go to for replacement parts.
OH, so it’s generic product… I see, thank you for the information
Ooo, good to know! It sucks they don’t offer hardware replacements on-site, but it’s good to know that they’re easy to find. And I doubt I’m going to be using Arch anytime soon (due to personal inexperience) but I would like to test Pop!_OS. Thank you for the detailed reply :D
My laptop still runs Ubuntu. But the 500 mb boot partition is basically now non functional and since I use luks on the main partition and hate snap I’m just strongly considering moving to pop. I also use an egpu quite frequently.
Ahh, I see. Well, what’s your experience with the hardware itself, then? Specifically the durability, weight, etc.
Sorry. I dont use a system76 laptop, i looked at getting the Lemur when i bought mine, but stock was hard to come by (it was the whole covid and supply chain nonsense).
I ended up getting a razer blade stealth 13 with the 11th Gen intel CPU.
Ultimately I wanted portability to be the primary thing over all else. BUt a GPU was nice to have.
My laptop is solid. But i tend to take pretty solid care of this stuff. Wouldnt necessarily reccomend any razer product to most personally. Their QA is questionable. And I take certain steps to keep it stable (ie: blocking some of their software at the firewall etc)
AH. Regardless, thanks for the reply. And I’m happy your Razer is doing u well :)
lol me too. Was pretty risky for me, even going in eyes wide open. Would probably do a lemur or framework next laptop. In fact that may be what I get the wife.
That or a MacBook Air. But I’d like to avoid that.
I’ve heard amazing things about noth Framework nd System76! I’m sure u can’t go wrong with either :) and I feel ya w/ ur avoidance of Apple products, lol
FWIW, I have a galp5, and had a lot of stability issues with Pop. I used it for well over a year, as I thought using their own OS on the machine they sold me would give the best results. Ultimately I spent a lot of time opening support tickets, and trying to work around issues (desktop stuttering, crashes, touchpad randomly would stop responding, etc). I did not find their support team particularly helpful. I finally installed stock Ubuntu, and it’s been significantly more stable.
I don’t plan to buy from them again. If I were buying now, I’d be looking at Framework (probably their upcoming, larger model with the dedicated GPU).
I bought a DIY Edition Framework Laptop 13 with an i5 1240p for about $1050 after buying my RAM and SSD on their own. This is the best option if you’re into modularity and upgradability and second only to buying used when it comes to environmental friendliness (in my opinion). Battery life isn’t anything to write home about at least on 12th Intel though, supposedly 13th gen Intel CPUs do better
Otherwise, System76, Tuxedo Computers, and Laptop with Linux are probably good options if you want Linux pre-installed. All 3 of those take Clevo laptops and make them their own.
Starlabs also looks like an interesting option, but I believe the Starlite is the only option under $1000 USD. As far as I know, they’re the only company that makes their own laptop chases from scratch for Linux.
Links:
Framework has quite a nice selection and the modularity is an amazing feature! Although having Linux preinstalled is a pretty big draw, and Sysytem76 has some VERY nice looking machines. Thank you!
Also had good experience with tuxedo (if in Europe - also slim book)
I’m a fan of Framework laptops. They have given people the option to upgrade several motherboards by Intel and released an AMD version to boot. I don’t think there’s ever been a manufacturer that offered three generations of motherboards on the same chassis. The swappable ports are kind of neat, you can choose which ones you want to use
The 13" is already on sale with a 16" coming later this year
I’ve heard really highly of framework so far! They seem to be a great company, thanks :)
Just bought a second hand Lenovo p50, before framework’s most receng laptop, like the idea of a framework laptop but for now this thing is plenty powerful so can’t really justify upgrading for some years yet
You got all the good infos already, but I’ll stress:
- Get Linux preinstalled from a reputable vendor. Linux works on most devices really; but when buying new, you don’t want the hassle to even think about drivers.
- If you cannot buy from a Linux-friendly vendor, buy an older model that’s VERY popular with Linux users (like the stereotypical thinkpad). Again, most devices will work, but you don’t want the hassle.
- Intel everything just works out-of-the-box with Open Source drivers and is good enough for work. I’m not aware of the current state of AMD, nvidia drivers.
- Choose a popular generic purpose distro. They are all good (enough) and should work out of the box. Popular for end users are Ubuntu (although hated by a vocal group) and related ones such Debian or PopOS; maybe Mint. I’d put Fedora/RedHat and Suse on the same level (but I wouldn’t know since I settled on Debian/Ubuntu long ago). Then, Arch adresses a different clientele who wants to tinker with there system; not my choice if you want a computer that just works, but great community. Anything else probably has too small of a user group unless it’s popular with your friends or line of work
- Treat it like a Mac. It’s different.
I have been purposefully avoiding Intel for the last six years. AMD CPUs are great if you are not stressed on ultra low power consumption. More threads, less money. AMD GPU drivers are open source and well integrated into the kernel, unlike NVidia’s proprietary driver, which I will never go back to.
Great that AMD has open source drivers, didn’t know that.
I’d say Framework, but I don’t think they have stuff under $1000 unfortunately.
I’ve never heard of framework so I’ll check them out, although it’s a bit unfortunate they might not have anything in my price range :( thanks regardless!
Their main draw is modularity. You can replace the components with newer ones down the line (need to replace entire motherboard for CPU upgrade, but that’s not really their fault). You also choose which ports you want.
That is quite a bonus! Framework seems like a really nice choice so far
If you’re looking for a cheap but solid laptop, you can get some pretty good deals on Dell Refurbished. Click on Laptops at the top, then look for the 50% off codes at the top of the page.
This is what I did… I currently use a refurbished Latitude 7420 with Pop!_OS as my daily driver (personal and work). Many of the Latitude, Precision, and XPS machines are actually Ubuntu certified, so you can have a high level of confidence of Linux working on them.
I’ve been using Linux on Latitudes for about 18 years and have had very little issues in terms of hardware support (although, tbf, I mainly stick to all Intel models as someone mentioned above). Highly recommended.
Ooo, thanks! The site seems to have some really good deals :)
If you’re getting a Dell (or other laptops, but I know it’s fairly common in Dell laptops) try to avoid anything with AMD SmartShift. This feature is designed only for Windows and will cause problems with Linux.
I’ve been told of a pretty simple fix, so it’s not the end of the world, but if you can avoid it I would.
Ooo, nice! And I’ll keep the AMD SmartShift in mind
Great. I should add that the solution I mentioned was done on Mint, but it’s a kernel parameter so I’d imagine it’s not too distro-specific (I’m very new to Linux though so I may be wrong).
Here is the forum thread if you want to look for yourself. The actual solution should be the third-to-last reply.
The user added in the last comment that this problem may actually be fixed on a lot of SmartShift laptops, so it may not come up at all if you do get one.
I have a Dell G15 5520 as my daily driver. It’s a 12th gen intel core i5-12500H with nvidia RTX 3050. I never even let it boot Windows. Booted straight off an Ubuntu USB and wiped the drive. Aside from some quibbles with Ubuntu itself (I hate that by default Firefox is a snap from the snap store), everything basically worked out of the box. The only real hurdle to jump is enabling the proprietary nvidia driver.
Dell has at times offered their laptops with Linux preinstalled. I’m not certain they have a current offering, but just about all of their models are well supported.
I’m on my second Dell XPS 13 Developer laptop which comes with Ubuntu pre installed. I loved the first one but played too much Minecraft and wore out a couple of keys. I had it long enough that decent replacement keyboards were hard to find so I got a new laptop from the same line. I love the second one even more. My brother, also a Linux-using software professional, made the initial recommendation, so there is at least one other person who liked this line.
Ooo, nice! Although I don’t really want to use Ubuntu myself (nothing wrong with the distro itself, I’ve just tried others I like), the knowledge it’s Linux compatible is amazing!
I have two generations of XPS 15 running Linux without issue. You may need to disable secure boot depending on what distro you install, but beyond that everything works great 👍
Love my XPS 13, runs fedora with no issues. Such a solid laptop. Also love my 4K screen
I had an XPS 13 non developer for about 5 years. Ran any distro I threw at it. Upgraded to a frameworks last year though and not looking back. It’s all about that 3:2 display for me. The main thing I miss on the XPS is that it sipped power while suspended. I could leave it with the lid closed for a week unplugged and it would still be at 50% The framework 12th Gen is not so forgiving. If it sits in my bag all weekend it will be dead come Monday.
System 76 customer here. I just replaced my 2011 system 76 lemur with a new lemur. I have Ubuntu installed on both and have never tried pop os. I was very happy with that laptop and the company in general. It actually still runs okay. I did replace the battery after about 5 or 6 years. I’m thinking of trying out nixos on it.
My guilty reason for upgrading was I wanted to play dwarf fortress at more than 5 fps…
I’m curious why you’ve never tried pop? I thought i’d hate the tiling and all that, but it and the gestures are so intuitive… i’ve used all sorts of desktop environments on linux over the last 20 some years, and pop is by far the most usabunity with the least learning curve.
Well, Pop was released way after I bought the first laptop. I guess I haven’t had any reason to try it out, as I’m happy with my i3/sway setup. I don’t really hop distros at all. Maybe when system76 completes/releases their full cosmic desktop (not based on gnome) I’ll give it a spin.
If you can you should try to savve up for a framework laptop
I’ve installed Linux on two Windows laptops:
- A 2019 Lenovo Yoga with an Intel CPU and Nvidia GPU. Kubuntu worked without any issue, aside from the Nvidia drivers being finicky. It also has a touchscreen with pen support, which works really well.
- A 2022 Asus Vivobook with an AMD CPU. Tried Fedora for this one and had tons of driver issues at first, but they eventually got patched.
So, I’d say that buying a Windows laptop and installing Linux on it is certainly viable, as long as you’re ready to do some amount of troubleshooting or waiting for driver updates. Oh, and keeping the Windows partition somehow (dual booting or w/e) can be handy for firmware updates.
Ahh, I figured that’d be a problem. Although it’s not make or break, it certainly is a bit annoying
If I’d buy a new laptop these days I’d go with a framework. Other than that, buying a refurbished ThinkPad is always a great option and they generally run really good with Linux. As for support I wouldn’t be too afraid, almost all hardware is supported these days as long as it’s not something really obscure. The main thing worth checking is probably the WiFi card, I heard there are some that are a pain to set up, but I never ran into that. That being said most manufacturers won’t officially support Linux and if they do they’ll only support fedora or Ubuntu (speaking about big manufacturers, ofc there’s system76 and stuff), but as I said I don’t think I’ve encountered a laptop that straight up wasn’t able to run Linux. Also if possible avoid Nvidia GPUs, they work, but can be a pain with drivers breaking on the regular
I’m heavily considering just getting a refurbished Thinkpad just because of the low cost, along with the support. And yeah, I’ve been making a point to avoid Nvdia for that reason, lol. Thanks!
IMO refurbished ThinkPad is the way for almost anything that is not gaming, working on huge code bases (without having a build server) or heavy graphical work like video editing or heavy photo editing. For most other things a decently new and well specced ThinkPad will do the job while still maintaining that feeling of a “new and snappy pc”
Yeah, it seems like the most worth-it option so far. As much as I’d like a newer laptop getting a refurbished ThinkPad is a pretty nice choice too
I’m fairly new to Linux, but I quickly learned that AMD based stuff is better for Linux.
Oh, really? I knew AMD was more popular among Linux users, but I never really made the connection that it was better, lol. Thanks!
nvidia drivers on linux is troublesome. They don’t support their own proprietary drivers well and don’t share with the devs working on open source ones. As expected, you end up with two different feature incomplete drivers and it’s a huge hassle.
iirc you should be fine with an intel or and cpu and it’s just the gpu you need to be careful with, but my experience is with an amd cpu and nvidia gpu so I may be wrong
I see. It sucks that proprietary stuff clashes so much with open source stuff but it’s not unexpected unfortunately :( thank you for this!
Oooooh yeah. I currently have an AMD video card and it’s heaven. No drivers problems, KDE Wayland works perfectly, it’s just absolutely awesome.
Ooo, nice!
