Trickle up economics
It’s hardly a trickle either.
Shit, even at a trickle pace…
If I somehow got one single penny from every person on the planet, I’d have about $80,000,000…
Do you have a penny to spare for the cause?.. 😂
you know what’s funny? you still wouldn’t be close to the rich rich people
I know right…
I caught myself mid laugh before realizing the reality of that statement.
Yes Marx formalized this opinion.
It’s the owners of the land and the means of production that control all of the wealth.
Now it’s the owners of the holding companies who own the owners of all the rest doing the controlling.
Capitalism is now playing 3D chess
Honestly one of the reasons I fell for a pyramid scheme coming out of high school.
A friend invited me and I went to shit on it and get him out, but the main guy’s whole thing was “everything is a pyramid scheme, at least here you have the chance to build a pyramid beneath you.”
Obviously there were other reasons as old as time, but the argument of “so what, your ‘regular job’ is already a pyramid scheme you can’t win” was pretty rattling to a teenager in 2011.
The difference between a pyramid scheme and a good business is where your money comes from, in a pyramid scheme it comes from the people at the bottom of the pyramid, in a business it comes from selling goods and/or services, that’s not saying I agree with big business, but one is profiting off of legitimate customers, the other is profiting off it’s own “employees”. I nearly got caught into one a few years ago too, until I realized what it was, at that point they had only taken a couple $100 for the interview and sign up stage, i had to block my card for them to never get access again, because even though i didnt complete sign up, thwy kept charging me monthly
What about the stock market? They seem to be pricing companies way higher than they are worth.
DAE Capitalism bad?
omg me
I’d say it’s more like disguised feudalism. We’re all peasants for the few kings and queens that have all the money at the top.
No, it is not. It is brutal in many ways. But that it is not. Neither is socialomswor communism.
Pyramid schemes are zero-sum. I steal and gain, you lose. Capitalism and even communism are not zero-sum games. They are net-positive. They involve people making goods and services for others.
Pyramid schemes don’t have to be zero-sum. All you need are assholes at the top trying to suck up as many resources as they can. Imagine the shape that makes.
I think you can say is a pyramid scheme in the way you can’t really make money if you are making money for someone upper on the ladder, even if are an independent business owner, you still have loans to pay or equipment that is sold by a corporation.
If we take into consideration the destruction of the ecosystems necessary to sustain human life, capitalism is a net-negative.
They draw the box around the part that is a net positive.
The destruction of the Commons is not accounted for.
The impacts outside their box are not accounted for.
That’s the tragedy of the commons, and you’ll find it’s true for basically every possible societal organization.
the tragedy of the commons was a bit of British aristocrat propaganda to take the land peasants worked…
Before Capitalism Humanity drove mammoths into exctintion, and that was a hunter-gatherer society.
https://www.earth.com/news/humans-drove-woolly-mammoths-to-extinction/
What I mean with this is that the effect of humanity in the environment is an human issue independent to the economic system issue the humans use.
Incredible that you can say that seriously. Human development and civilization causes ecosystem destruction. The particular economic system may affect the specifics of how this happens not whether or not it does.
Capitalism means always looking for more profits. Endless efforts of private owners to expand and increase their profits leads to the perpetual circle of suproduction and overconsumption which destroy ressources and ecosystems.
This particular system is the main reason it’s happening.
Do you honestly think a communist or socialist society which is wealthy would be any healthier for the environment than a capitalist one that is also wealthy?
We have been destroying the planet long before economy was a concept.
A socialist or communist society could be healthier. Not saying it automatically would be. The only people theorizing a sustainable economy are on the (far) left though.
And the last 50 years proved that sustainability is impossible in a capitalist system. It hinders profits, and the basis of capitalism is: always more profits.
Capitalism is anarchism for shitty people.
Anarchism is capitalism for based people!
Reminds me of that famous Churchill quote about democracy
Oh I know that one!
I’d say something about democracy, if only I had the internet to look up what I said.
— Winston Churchill
actually all economies are zero sum game. down the drain everything is about ressources rather than labour or energy. the later are the means to transforming the resources. what counts at the end is how much you have to survive and thrive.
Being zero sum gain doesn’t, a pyramid scheme, make.
Yes, but you’re going to find the same thing with Communism.
Too many shitty greedy people at the top, too many plebs with fuck all at the bottom.
And while you may be thinking “I could live on a commune, spend an hour a day growing our own food and have all that time left for whatever else I want”, you’ll quickly find you can’t grow your own 65" OLED television or whatever other comforts you’ve become accustomed to.
The billionaires need reining in, and better distribution of wealth all around the bottom, but capitalism ain’t going anywhere.
You don’t need a 65" OLED TV because you know it’s bad for the environment.
So are PCs and smartphones, yet here you are.
Yes it’s a hard question how to deal with this. Practically all the consumer goods somehow harm the environment.
Maybe we have different ideas of “works”
I’m very curious about where that response even came from
I was also thinking that but now i see his comment as a reply to aome other comment so he probably have sent this by accident
Atleast it works unlike covert fascist ideas like Marxism/Communism
“HEY LOOK EVERYONE, I DON’T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK I AM TALKING ABOUT!!”
Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
fascist
Marxist/ Communist
Those two things are opposites…you buzzword concern troll
Opposite likes north and south are opposites? Or opposites like apples and oranges are opposites.
Fascism and communism are both:
- authoritarian attempts
- to improve socieity
- by radically changing economic relations
- from consensual trade to slavery
- to support a massive war effort
- designed to get the rest of the world under the same authoritarian regime
- resulting in millions of battlefield deaths
- and the deaths of millions of enslaved citizens
- by overwork, disease, starvation
- and outright systematic execution
But one’s “left wing” and the other is “right wing” so they could be described as “opposites”.
Did this guy really just describe capitalism
you have anything that isn’t Carl-“what nationalist”-Tucker ranting on Fox News?
first off, Fascists didn’t try to change any economic relations, in fact a lot of the NAZI party members were staunch capitalists, People like Ford were lauded as great men of commerce and industry for their success in economics, the Nazis even privatized stuff that was public during the Weimar years.
And why wouldn’t authoritarians like capitalism? the modern workplace literally resembles the fascist dream, you have the CEO (führer) with his cadre of upper management (close political aids/figures) middle and lower management as an enforcement mechanism with limited decision-making powers (Gestapo/SA/SS) and the good workers.
and in the USA the ultra capitalists even have the fun social Darwinism bit going on (13/50 anyone?)
Communism is covert fascism? Why then did fascists round up and kill communists? The two are wholeheartedly opposed to each other.
Fanatics often hate those that are only slightly different from themselves the most. See Catholics vs protestants.
Sounds like you’re pretty fanatically rooted in your belief and we’re all slightly different from you 😂
It’s ok, communists only rounded up and killed millions…and caused millions more to die of starvation…but it’s ok because fascist killed them in WW II…
Some governments who got put into power under the promise of communism did stray away from their promise of communism and statelessness into authoritarianism, and it killed people, yes. Capitalism has also killed and is killing as we speak, so I’m curious why it’s “okay” in their case.
The main issue with communism is that it puts the entire control of the economy in a few people’s hands. Even more so than capitalism does.
When that happens, the central planning that those people do, even in the best case is orders of magnitude less efficient than capitalism can manage.
And in the usual case, ends up with them funneling much of the resources to their buddies and letting others starve (a la holodomor).
Anyhow, it’s an argument that is about 100 years out of date. The Scandinavians solved this problem half a century ago already. The best thing we can do is have capitalism control production and distribution of goods and services, and democratic government’s socialist policies drive the resources where they need to go and solve the many economic externalities endemic in any capitalistic system.
A better solution, as yet, has not been demonstrated. Anyone advocating “pure communism” or “pure capitalism” is a rube.
When that happens, the central planning that those people do, even in the best case is orders of magnitude less efficient than capitalism can manage.
There was one promising solution to that which was attempted back in the early 70’s: Combine Cybernetics with Socialism.
Unfortunately the CIA instituted a coup in Chile to install a dictator more favorable to multinational business interests before it could be implemented.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=RJLA2_Ho7X0&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I didn’t watch the whole video, but it sounds very similar to what The Venus Project has in mind.
My feeling about this is that it unfortunately suffers from many of the same problems as communism. In that there will be some group of people who control the computers that make all the decisions, and over time those people will tilt the playing field in their favor and the rest will suffer.
Open source could mitigate this to some degree, but there will still be an “intelligencia” owning the code and having massive incentives for abusing it.
Best just not to have a system where such incentives exist IMO
I’m familiar with the Venus Project, I don’t believe there is much overlap in their ideas.
In that there will be some group of people who control the computers that make all the decisions, and over time those people will tilt the playing field in their favor and the rest will suffer.
This is likely true with Communism, but could be almost entirely mitigated if done using Anarchist (like Peter Kropotkin style anarchism) principles. Instead of an all powerful state controlling the reins which would inevitably breed corruption, this concept of cybernetics could be applied in a federated way, where smaller communities could hook-up to this cybernetic collective, which would allow for greater cohesion and collaboration between directly democratic communities.
Agreed to this! Capitalism means that people can’t be the owners of a buisness or anything at all. Thoose mixed economies where government-based (communist) companies compete along with individual’s buisness should be enought to make the best of two worlds. But still should be implemented correctly and you might also want to consider governments making some limitation on other private companies anti-competatively though. If government behaves well within this mixed economy then it will be cool i guess
Yes, antitrust, consumer protection, health and welfare programs, and pollution taxes are starkly missing in many of todays capitalist countries, first and foremost being the USA.
Though I must admit I don’t understand what you mean by that people can’t own things in capitalist societies. I would say there’s maybe too much ownership in capitalism.
It’s not, neither case is ok, but communism has been tried many times and always ends in authoritarianism. This communist utopia is a myth. At least with capitalism I’m not starving or have nothing for my labor.
At least with capitalism I’m not starving or have nothing for my labor.
Ah nice self-unmasking. “I am comfortable under capitalism and it could be worse for me so thats why I don’t want to even consider something else where no-one had to starve while food is available or be homeless while millions of houses stand empty.” You are just selfish and afraid.
It’s also known as intellectual humility. A person is allowed to think of their own self interest, and speaking of one’s own experience is the most based form of communication because it holds the highest certainty.
Yes because I forgot how china and Russia and north Korea all kindly take care of their homeless and special needs people…o wait they just euthanize them.
None of those are communism lol
This utopia that capitalism works well only does in a vacuum, looking at the westernp/“developed” world. Half the world’s population lives on less than $7 a day. Most people objectively have close to nothing to show for their labor.
Under capitalism those people who earn the least are improving their lot rapidly. That $7 a day you’re citing was $2 a day about 20 years ago.
Under communism people who are doing fine descend into poverty and starvation. Not “food insecurity” where they have all the doritos they could ever want, but actual starvation where they eat their neighbors to survive.
oh god did u get the “actual starvation” thing from yeon mi park? Here u got different text, same energy
That comparison doesn’t even work
Why? Both are dogmas that NEVER produce the intended result they claim
But they don’t work as a comparison. It’s apples to oranges
It’s like two communists Stalin and Trotskey, fighting against each other for power. Trotskey was defeated, exiled and later assassinated
Communism is fascism under a different name. Every communist country in the past or present has been a fascist totalitarian state
no, fascism is nothing like communism outside of being authoritarian, but fascism is capitalistic for sure.
We might have different ideas of “works” my friend
Of course it works, for the 1%
From my limited understanding, Marxism comes off as more of a lense to analyze politics and human behavior than an actual system. It also comes off as not very fascist, but fascist seeming things can come out of it, depending on your perspective. I will admit I’m not very educated in regards to political science, and I’ve just begun my foray into Marxist theory.
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I can’t disagree with that. I think the sort of utopia that communism suggests is a natural progression back to our roots as a species, and will happen, but only after we’ve pushed for it AND survived through an inevitable apocalypse, because we done royally fucked up tbh. For right now? Well I’m just a blue collar American with no degree. I don’t know. I think socialist structure needs to be implemented for sure though, just to stop the people whove captured the wealth from royally screwing all of us over. I am not educated, or indoctrinated enough to actually debate you beyond that. In fact, I kind of just avoid people, so I’m probably not the best leftist to debate you at all.
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Dont use words you dont understand silly goose
it works
citation needed
We might have different ideas of “works” my friend
Capitalism literally turns to fascism to stay relevant as it makes life really bad for most people. This is such a laughably bad take.
Communism works, just look at North Korea.
And there are no outside forces that have influenced North Korea either.
It’s hilarious how these tankies are agreeing with your comment not knowing it’s sarcasm lol
