YSK There's a campaign to replace the distorted Mercator world map with the fairer Equal-Earth projection
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Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here's what the Equal Earth projection looks like
Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I'm so mad I'm not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.
What really disappoints me about that site is the button that reads "Download the Correct Map". They destroyed all their credibility with one word.
Yeh, I mean I can see how using Mercator is subconsciously strengthening colonialist thinking, but to imply that the angles-stable area-distorted map that was much more convenient for naval navigation, was specifically chosen to misrepresent the size of the global south is borderline paranoid.
still not as aesthetic as Waterman butterfly projection
(and relevant XKCD)
I didn't think I'd ever have a favourite map but here we are.
That projection shows how vast the Pacific is
It's almost two entire sections, with just a little of North America, Asia, and Antarctica. And then some on four others. It's obvious from a glance, no other body of water or land mass comes anywhere near that.
And if you still don't think that's vast enough, maybe a lifetime of bad projections have given you a distorted view of the Pacific's size. Mercator and Mercator like projections definitely make the Pacific look much too large near the poles.
Came here to make sure that xkcd got posted. Well done.
This will never happen as long as Big Greenland pulls the strings of power in the cartography world.
And they're very big. Have you looked at a map lately? Do you expect tiny little Africa to stand up to that?
It’s time the U.S. deals with big Greenland once and for Oil.
Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.
IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn't acceptable, then get a globe.
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
I'll be real here, I have no idea what these people are talking about. The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone's thinking of how important the continent is in global politics or economics. If someone thinks "country/continent looks small so they must be unimportant," they are either a child or a fool. Or both.
I somewhat agree, Africa never looked small imo. However Russia, Greenland, Canada etc are so comically oversized that it absolutely makes a difference imo.
Its a distorted representation of what the Earth looks like, and regardless of the way the sphere of our Earth is displayed on a 2D plane, it will always be distorted.
I don't see any tangible benefit from changing what has already worked and is globally accepted for many decades. It seems kinda nitpicky, or like these people are clout chasing or something.
The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone's thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics.
Africa isn't a country though, it's a continent with dozens of independent, distinct and diverse countries in it.
And one possible impact of the continent being represented much smaller than it really is, is people thinking of Africa as a single country.
it's a pretty common talking point. and he people most likely to look at maps nowadays are indeed children.
Not a single link there to technical details about the projection.
The site has several pretty bad design issues. Aside from not having an image of the thing they're trying to convince you to support, the page is unreadable in dark mode, and uses a laggy mouse cursor that feels like I'm back on Geocities.
You'd think that, given the nature of this project, that these sorts of optics would be something that team would be more capable of handling.
You can get this with a few clicks
Equal Earth is an equal-area (equivalent) projection. Shapes, directions, angles, and distances are distorted and stretched north-south in tropical and mid-latitude areas. Nearer the poles, features are compressed in the north-south direction. Distortion values are symmetric across the equator and the central meridian.
and there's a paper but the link requires access
Edit: I never said it was enough.
This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?
The way the world's going, the next accepted projection will be depicted on the backs of four elephants atop a turtle.
Bring on the Wizzards
I do hope we get the luggage....
Wait a minute. I have seen this exact visual somewhere
Its the same take that's applied to any party seen as a "status quo". Your boss, the CEO, police, the state, movies, everything is "projected" to show something that it isn't to subtly manipulate the basis of your decisions.
Africans: You know, 14th century mercator maps are horribly disproportionate over 1/2 the map and are the maps of reference for most online apps, software and textbooks. There are better projections that balance location for actual land mass, we should probably use those.
lemmy: garbage take.
99% of people dont know that there other projections. I dare you to ask people which map projection is their favorite.
Ideally yes we should stick to standard and make sure everyone knows thay there are many variants and none of them perfectly represent the sphere were on but thats not happening.
I don’t believe that 99% figure for a second. Unless geography is removed from all curricula worldwide. Even still, that ignorance would not signify what this movement implies. It is a useful map; end of story. If the movement were, “We should increase public knowledge of geography and how projections work,” fine. But it isn’t.
i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there's no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.
You've unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you'd pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it's not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.
Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn't any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.
I don't get it,
from my memory of geography class in 5th to 8th grade, in elementary, we extensively learned about all kinds of maps, and projections, so teaching kids 3-4 is huge downgrade.
The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.
As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
Don't give the right any ideas. They'll be on about "geometric purity" or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be "woke."
"The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!"
Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
yeah, most of the world already moved on from it, but its still being used in many texts and countries.
It's a bit hard to find out where it actually originated from and who's behind it. Judjing by their social media handlers, it's a marketing agency Hello Makeda. Maybe it's just me, but I don't trust marketing agencies to be good judges on geographical projects.
They are only using the cause to promote their brand social responsibility probably. In any case, the issue with the distorted view of the map that ideologically and politically benefited one side has been known for decades, and most of the countries that were colonies now use the correct one.
Okay... but doesn't this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?
If it's already distorted, switching to a different distortion that's area-preserving can still be an improvement.
DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO
EDIT: details
It has less distortion of relative size of areas, most notably when compared to the Mercator projection; and less distortion of shapes of areas, notably when compared to the Gall–Peters projection. Other compromise projections attempt a similar trade-off.
More unusually, the Dymaxion map does not have any "right way up". Fuller argued that in the universe there is no "up" and "down", or "north" and "south": only "in" and "out".[9] Gravitational forces of the stars and planets created "in", meaning "towards the gravitational center", and "out", meaning "away from the gravitational center". He attributed the north-up-superior/south-down-inferior presentation of most other world maps to cultural bias.
Each region on a dymaxion map is absolutely fine though, it's just when you put it all together it becomes god awful.
A butterfly map is a better compromise if you need a world map.
If you have a physical Dymaxion Map, you make each vertex a hinge so you can swing to connect the bits you want to be adjacent for the purpose at hand.
This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn't put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this
CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something "I should know".
maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why i’m seeing this everywhere rn.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.
what the fuck are these people talking about?
a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?
this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades
This is the correct take... The only time people care about maps these days are when they go to maps.google.com. And that's an actual 3d representation. Therefore this issue is such a non-fucking-issue that I don't understand why I've seen so much noise about it here.
It's stupid.
Does it matter that I don't know the actual size of Africa compared to Greenland? No... It's completely irrelevant to just about anyone's day to day life. And even if I did grow up on a map that was more accurate... You know what I'd likely miss out on then? Actual directionality which DOES matter more for a typical person.
Looking at the other maps presented in these threads... They all lose the ability to reference NSEW compass directions.
Except for one... and guess what... that one is the one that I actually remember from school. Or at least a variation close enough to it that can't make out any difference from my memory.
Yeah, I'm open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven't seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are....to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.
I'll split this into two:
only matters to stupid people
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism... generally not a low IQ cohort.
and does not qualify as something “I should know”
Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you...
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism
I maintain that none of those people are the ones interested in this movement, and if you believe they are, you haven't spent any time thinking about it. Again, I'm looking for any actual legitimate argument in support of it. A condescending argument from hypothetical authority isn't going to cut it.
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
Honestly, at least in school you should use a globe to begin with. It is the best projection there is. I'm also pretty sure there are online "globes" that you can turn any way you want. Using a 2D projection is mostly unnecessary in education.
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Have you looked at the projections in question?
Mercator enlarges everything closer to the poles while making everything closer to the equator smaller. It does not matter which continent it is, since it follows the same formula worldwide. That means, Europe, North America, Greenland, the south end of South America, South Africa, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and Antarctica are enlarged, and Central America, northern South America, most of Africa, India, South Asia and Ocenania are depicted smaller.
The Equal Earth projection makes sure that each square kilometer of land takes up the same space on the map, no matter where it is.
So this enlarges all regions closer to the equator (as listed above) and shrinks all that are closer to the poles.
So obviously it does benefit most regions of South America and frankly, I'm quite surprised that you'd think it wouldn't.
In fact, it would be quite difficult to make a projection that would specifically enlarge Africa while shrinking South America. (Certainly possible, but difficult)
I was referring to the text at the bottom of the press release:
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
It seems to single out Africa because this campaign is led by Africa No Filter and Speak Up Africa. I just thought it was amusing that the campaign text mentions Africa repeatedly but only indirectly mentions south america when referring to the global south.
Why not include south America in there too?
Almost nobody here gives a flying fuck about education quality. If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don't seem to like that talk...
But in all seriousness I guess we as Latin America/South America don't have that sense of unity as Africa does. We are absurdly diverse and I think it has taken a toll in our sense of identity
If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
I propose that Brazil go for the option of maximum chaos. Brazil should formally change its official name to Os Estados Unidos da América. Ain't no rule that says two nations can't have the same name. By default, every diplomat on Earth would just start casually referring to each country as the North United States and the South United States. Brazil could effectively rename the United States on a global diplomatic level.
South America/Latin America, unite! Become strong, and don't let the US make of themselves the continent. Where's LatAm's (Sudamerica's?) version of the EU?
I for one enjoy this modern "shared" culture in hispanic countries. Or at least what I perceive to be so. LatAm artists getting awards at Music Awards in Spain is poggers, and the collaborations between artists of different countries as well. Also the radio station being available in several countries as well. Afaik, Brazilians seem to not be very familiar with other lusophone countries' culture as much, though it seems the contrary might be true. I imagine Brazilians also don't be familiar with other LatAm countries' music and culture either, but Idk. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.
Why does the map on the website need that draggable divider when both versions show both types of projection?
I was wondering the same thing.
Obligatory West Wing Gall-Peters Projection link
Just want to point out... their "equal" and "correct" map is missing New Zealand...
I'm in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.
what line of work?
Shipping and petroleum - got an old Ikea Mercator map behind me for quick looks and estimations.
Mercator distorts landmass to fit the grid, so it is good for navigation, simply draw a straight line between two points and follow it. Also, the plea on that site is just...weird. Africa is not taken seriously because it is displayed too small on maps - what? It is a large, chunky continent that can be compressed without too much detail loss - Europe, not so much.
Maybe Greenland's size on the projection is what got Trump all worked up. :P
Yes, but thats only for navigation. The map was chosen to be used as the standard in colonial time, because it brainwashed the colonies to believe that the people subjugating them were from great and big countries on the other side of the world. There would be a lot more revolts if people actually knew that they were being held captives by weak dudes from some small european piece of land that was only a fraction of the size of their country.
I kinda like the Winkel Triple or Kavrayskiy VII projections. They look a bit more natural compared to the Mercator.
I like the AuthaGraph map myself, but I’m happy to see an equal area projection being proposed!
wow. thats cool
Search the comments before promoting this one. Glad I'm not alone.
I especially like how it centers over the Pacific, the largest geographical feature.
Other maps make the Pacific look similar in size to the Atlantic when in reality the Pacific ocean is three times the size of the Eurasia landmass.
Mercator? I barely even know her!
none of this matters, because we all know the earth is flat. Just because other planets are round, doesn't mean the earth is!
Fuck this. We can do better worse
This is so dumb what do you mean replace you have a phone and can look up different versions as u please
They're speaking of the standard and default in most map representations.
I believe in Winkel tripel supremacy
Whatever map that uses Eurasia rather than pretend Europe is it's own continent is fine by me
Those distances get exaggerated up on the poles though. What about that other one that looks like a bunch of orange slices?
That one has the problem that someone might get hungry and eat the slices.
It's not a bad compromise projection honestly. Why not?
The globe in the thumbnail is really bothering me. Does the artist not know how to align objects?
It was probably done for free by some volunteer dude.... You can contact them and offer to fix it for free probably
I might just do that, thanks!
It's also using mercator projection
It's now trivial, in 2025, to depict the world as a 3D shape, this is coming a few decades after it matters, imo.
This is the best idea I’ve heard since that one weird website I found that said every country should put a sky blue pennant above their flag to remind us we share a planet.
Interestingly enough, the EU uses the LAEA projection for all its maps!
Now I need to watch a video on how globes are made
Ampak Mercator je najboljši sosed. 😢
For me, Peter's projection will always be in second place behind simply using a globe: keeps cardinal directions, easy to find precise coordinates with a ruler, correct continent significance while only using straight lines, simple, and easy to use.
Peeps always says i'm evil because everything is distorded on it but i don't care about distortion, I just want something rectangular and accurate.
Any map depicting UTC0 in the centre and not the international date line in the centre is unequal.
-t Pacific nations.
I feel like thats why UTC never took off. They should have set 0 in the pacific ocean somewhere and everyone would have been much happier.
Geometry just isn't PC
I guess, even globally, size matters.
Oh it's called "equal earth projection"?
Great. That means Trump will double down on the Mercator and it'll be like the metric bullshit all over again.
The downloadable maps from that link are misnaming the “Gulf of America” as “Gulf of Mexico”, so Trump would never acknowledge anyway haha
The slider is very revealing. Hard to believe that were still using Mercator projection when its so incredibly deceiving even if you actually know the real sizes.
Mercator is awesome with compass directions. That's why it's the oldest and most popular out of the popular ones today.
Size only really matters if you're using the map for overland navigation, and even then it's more important to preserve compass lines. (And it's quite telling that the project is just injecting their own bias instead of actually pushing for accurate representation.)
I mean the problem with any projection of earth onto a 2d simplified shape surface is that it will be inherently distorted. The Mercator projection is scaled properly towards the equator but has to scale upwards more and more toward the poles to be able to fit the given area.
Even their own map, which for some reason isn’t shown in either the video or on the main page, isn’t accurate either. It’s better but is also warped in its own way, it would be nice if they had a little blurb that says something to that effect.
Here’s the actual map projection they are pushing for; https://equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html
Fuck that. Let's go for the euler spiral.
It seems like the kind of thing that would give rise to the
~Earth movementI mean, I'm not exactly thrilled about it erasing my country.. Did a cartographer from New Zealand make this as an act of revenge? 🤔
I hope someone travels Antarctic to Alaska on this map
In color
We could also have made Mercator maps of varying position, but that might not center Europe.