You went from 3 points to -8 in like 3 hrs. But nope! No manipulation of votes going on here!!

Pretty sure u had more when i first found this thread too, back when the few comments it had were all sane.

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Youre scary when mad, i love it. Keep arguing for sanity amigo.

I mean i neither said nor implied any of those things, but ok.

No. Its not a joke, but this is also not the opinion of most of us that are tired of hearing the run up to our election be spammed with nothing but how biden is singlehandedly responsible for netanyoohoos disaster.

Gaza is a genocide. The IDF is out to exterminate a culture via bombs and a refusal to providebasic life sustaining resources. That is pretty plain as far as definitions of genocide go as best as i can tell.

At the same time, im also aware that hamas was egged on by another deranged dictator to distract from the war hes waged on a country he calls a stepping stone to the denazification of eastern europe. Im aware that status quo joe is the only one of the 2 candidates that stand a chance in our election to support Ukraine, just as im aware that his stance on israel is a continuation of US policy for the past 70 yrs. I will add that im aware hes the first president ive had in my lifetime to even verbally acknowledge that what israel does is morally repugnant (calling for new israeli elections), just as im aware that US soft powers are critically endangered geopolitically as our allies fear we change our mind on whos a friend depending on whos in power. I can guaran-fucking-tee u that if Bernie was pres and tried to stop arms sales to israel, 70 senators would be ready to override him and call him an anti semite. The whole genocide joe nonsense is drummed up by foreign bad faith actors keen on installing a foreign stooge as our head of state, again, by disengaging our youth from the political process we have.

I support the protests bc i support palestine. I dont support joe biden any more than filling in the box next to his name in november. I dont support the genocide joe narrative bc i find it clear that it is being used for nefarious ends by hostile foreign powers.

Nothing new here. Russian subterfuge is a staple of their government’s external workings for most of their history. I say this as a Pole whose country has a history of being preyed on by russian propaganda and covert ops anytime the russian state decided it wanted to go imperial.

Ewww… Sanity.

Cant wait for 20 bad faith actors to drop in and downvote the shit out of u the second this post/comment starts picking up steam.

E: here they are! This post kicked off with 6 or 7 comments all echoing this sort of sanity, but here come the downvote brigade making it look like truth is less popular than fiction. Per the usual, calling it out angers the vlad supporters greatly. Of course its the usual suspects, too, come to defend their paid comrades efforts to fuck up our elections.

As someone pointed out before, its all goebbels style repetition of the same continually disproven points, but hearing it enough plants the seed in enough minds to where it starts to sound like truth.

You can tell by how very suddenly the sheer number of comments blows the fuck up once anything not vlad-approved picking up steam.

The Fox is upset bc of the sooper special word it cannot say since, say… the 60s.

“Oh, you can see a well defined difference between the only two parties with a chance at winning an election in the US? I guess youre actually a Lib TM bc theres absolutely no way, none at all, that you might be anything left of center.”

Also, you missed,

The left wants to fund the Ukranians fighting their sovereignty,

The right wants vlad the dictator to steamroll eastern europe bc daddy dump says hes big and strong unlike the clearly gencocidal nazi Volodomyr “no, i wont give u dirt on ur political opponents just for protecting my people, you imbecile” Zelenskyy.

I wouldnt say that its the progressives shifting the goalposts…

Exactly!!

This is why i preach leftist solidarity. I get that neolibs are (very much) to the right of me. The tomes we align, however, need to be embraced. Any leftward movement is preferable to none at all. Any leftward movement shifts the overton window in the direction we want. We can worry about arguing when its relevant, not when we need to keep the literal fascist out of office. In general, claiming someone like status quo joe to be a fascist is a hell of a privileged position to hold. Fascists want the outright eradication of some sort of undesirable group and an outright rejection of electoralism or democracy in all its forms, quite unlike status quo joe.

Pretty much, but god youre eloquent! Im glad im not one of the ones trying to argue with u xD

I do remember r/sandersforpresident when it was good, and i do remember a lot of reddit leftist subs before they turned into “vooting bad!” and “heres the spoonfed opinions u must subscribe to if u want to be a Leftist TM.”

And honestly, as for whats going on on lemmy, ur right that productive conversation gets drowned out, and the shills and their tankie followers tend to drag ppl down to the dregs whenever they try to debate them or are forced to call them out lest others take them seriously.

Its a brilliant tactic, too. Anyone remotely left leaning- shit, anyone morally sane, really- will look at the Gaza situation and feel for the downtrodden civilians being slaughtered and feel sympathy/take their side. The left is harder than the right to co-opt who will go for anything that tells them theyre better than the next guy so feel free to hate on XYZ, so theyre forced to co-opt the positions we already are bound to hold.

And ill end with ur daily reminder that actual leftists, like the Zapatistas in Spain who list it as a core tenet, will operate within the bounds of the system (not just outside of it) by voting for the option that most enables (or least obstructs) further mutual aid/direct action.

The last wave of “biden continued 70 yrs of US foreign policy in the mid east by authorizing open arms sales with Israel so hes clearly hitler and not voting for him is critical” has stopped being so effective on here, so its time to shake up the game. It will only get more insidious until the election.

All the while we ignore the most important point that putin has called Ukraine a stepping stone in the denzaification of eastern europe and that keeping twittler out of office qnd electing dems is the best chance the planet has at avoiding death and destruction on a level not seen since WWII. Also ignoring the fact that the death and destruction in Ukraine alone is still on a greater scale than the atrocities in Gaza or anywhere else on the planet at this time.

Love this comment! As i commented elsewhere, get outside and make ur local politicians uncomfortable until they pass Rqnked Choice. Plenty of state level measures going around right now, no waiting necessary!

We can do this on the state level! Many states currently have measures establishing ranked choice voting that all of us would do well to pressure our state officials to pass. Id love to see protesters camping out in front of state congresspeoples houses with signs about their local measure. No need to wait until after the election!

But yes thatd be excellent after November, as well

“Leftists” are the Zapatistas in Spain who state as one of their core tenets improving material conditions in the transitory state until the utopia they crave comes into being. If u are a leftist, you will vote for damage control. Voting for the lesser of two evils is not the endorsement of its own evil actions bc the alternative is utter madness. To abstain from voting, to spoil ones vote, these are actions which support the greater of two evils.

When presented with a chouce between lesser evil, and far greater evil, it is not unconscionable to choose the lesser evil, but it is evil outright to choose the greater evil.

To tie into to my initial point, will those who abstain or spoil their votes have my hatred? No! They are merely an exploited proletariat whos actions have been influenced by the enormous web of influence of foreign adversaries as well as our own domestic fascists. I will pity them instead, but I will also reiterate that much like the action of voting for trump is an evil action, their own actions will also be evil, even if they themselves are not evil, but merely misguided.

No, actually. I view most of the American populace, and indeed the planet’s, as an exploited, disadvantaged proletariat. The folks watching Faux News for 50 years never stood a chance. I so not hate them for it. Theyre still Americans, and I still need to go to work with them, and live in the same society as them. Ive gotten many meager and not so meager gains with righties over the past 5 years. If one of them recants on any one piece of bullshit they formerly believed in, than that is one more piece of bullshit they are not further propagating to their peers, or, more importantly, their children.

I believe that the ideal society is one free from hierarchy. How can I hate anyone for being brainwashed if I truly believe we are meant to be classless?

Always punch up, never down.

This account literally posted the same “Found the genocide supporter” comment under one of my comments in another thread when i called out a disgenuous user.

Cant even make up that level of projection. As if my hatred of the apartheid state wasnt the only consistent view ive held for the past 15 years or so. But, u know, better reduce nuanced position into something more easily digestable to discourage the youth on this platform from keeping the fascist out of office.