This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
This is extremely dangerous to our democracy.
Are you a bot? Wealth tax is not the same as income tax. You can’t compare 24% to 4%. It just doesn’t work that way. I don’t know how to be more clear.
Suppose you take one of your remaining dollars after paying 24% tax on your gross income. You buy a penny stock and it skyrockets to the moon and you are now worth 100 billion on paper, and you stay at your 100k/yr white collar desk job. Your only income is your 100k salary. You haven’t actually earned any income yet or triggered any taxable events. Income happens when you sell, not when values fluctuate. Your fair share is 24,000 now and then capital gains tax whenever you sell your share of that stock. This wealth tax is absurd because it’s literally just a timing difference between now and whenever you sell, or whenever you die, whichever happens first. That tax is going to get paid one way or another.
You guys are getting your panties all twisted up over a temporary timing difference. And the worst part is you just don’t even know what you’re talking about, or how chaotic it would be implementing such a thing, which would never work in practice, or even the fact that it’s unconstitutional and would require an amendment to be legal. This whole thing is just idiotic.
That’s actually a really good point I hadn’t even thought of. Is there even enough actual currency in circulation to pay the tax people are talking about, or is it all locked up in hypothetical future income priced in to the current FMV? Great post.
People will always act in their own rational self interest. Idk where people get this idea from that you can legislate market forces. It’s like legislating the tides or the seasons. The commies around here walking around bitching about all these mean rich people are so naive it’s really incredible.
This is a super basic apples and oranges concept, please try and keep up.
Your original comment was bitching about 4% not being a fair share when you are paying 24%. Wealth tax is not the same as income tax.
I think everyone is subject to income tax in the US when the income is taxable to them, yes. Eventually all of these big bad mean rich people will pay tax on their unrealized gains one way or another. No need to create a wealth tax because eventually the income tax will kick in, I promise you. There’s no need to fuck with the tax code even more, and by doing so totally breaking accounting and tax concepts in a way that only government can, just out of this populist notion that they aren’t paying their fair share, whatever that means.
My post was in response to someone bitching about borrowing against property with unrealized gains to avoid tax, try and keep up.
Wouldn’t a wealth tax increase risk of assets being stored and hidden outside the US?
Americans are already taxed on worldwide income. If there’s a wealth tax and they tried to get around it by storing assets outside the US, wouldn’t hiding it be much the same as attempting to hide non-US income?
Any comments on whether a wealth tax is even constitutional, since the 16th amendment only authorizes an income tax and not a wealth tax?
Do they get a deduction when they repay the loan on the back end, if they had to pick up income for the loan when it was received?
Wouldn’t it be disruptive to cap executive pay during lean years, or startup years, or recession years etc? Wouldn’t that create even more incentive than there already is to aggressively pump up income in order to meet arbitrary quarterly/annual earnings goals to keep executive comp high? What if there was a lot of income last year, little income this year, and a lot of income next year, etc. Should everyone’s income seesaw up and down or could we maybe plan around cash flow a little bit?
“Yearly audits of accounts held by wealth management firms to ensure that no one is fiddling with the books” is such a loaded sentence full of ignorance and naivete I really can’t begin to respond to it besides telling you that it instantly identifies you as someone who doesn’t know wtf they’re talking about and shouldn’t be commenting on such things.
Finally, Bezos is still the executive chair of Amazon and still holds 990 million shares as of November 2023 so idk what you’re talking about with that last sentence. Link to the SEC Form 4 Proxy Statement, a primary source document despite the shady url: https://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001018724/0978cda1-fd60-4d80-bdc4-e6911372e1a3.pdf or you can find it here dated November 1 2023: https://ir.aboutamazon.com/sec-filings/default.aspx
Yeah and then they pay interest on that loan, which is income to the lender for them to pay tax on; then when the original loan comes due the billionaire either refinances and pays even more interest, or pays back the loan by selling their appreciated assets and then - yes - pays tax on the income. So either way the tax is getting paid, now or later, and you have no idea how frustrating it is to see people parroting this over and over and over, and downvoting you for pointing it out.
Maybe there’s a difference between wealth and income, but nobody around here would care about such things.
I agree with you but the culture around here is exceptionally infuriating for anyone who understands a thing about finance/accounting/tax/money in general so good luck.
What makes you think I don’t already wear a crime fighting suit to work? There was a documentary about it and everything, The Accountant. I specialize in espionage, intrusion/counter intrusion, taking some CPE next week for long range assault weaponry, the usual.
He should’ve posted them all online. As a cpa with a bit of rare downtime on my hands I’d love to volunteer to review returns for the irs. I know all the errors and omissions, tricks and and gimmicks, goofs, fuckups, whoopsies, you name it. 20% commission for the recovered taxes seems fair compensation.
I read once that maybe Sweden or Norway has publicly available tax returns. BUT, the person whose return you look at gets notified when you view it, so you can’t just go around subtly snooping on your friends and neighbors without being noticed. Idk if that’s true though.
The complex structures and tax issues present in large partnerships require a focused approach to best identify the highest risk issues and apply resources accordingly. In 2021, the IRS launched the first stage of its Large Partnership Compliance (LPC) program with examinations of some of the largest and most complex partnership returns in the filing population. The IRS is now expanding the LPC program to additional large partnerships…By the end of the month, the IRS will open examinations of 75 of the largest partnerships in the U.S. that represent a cross section of industries including hedge funds, real estate investment partnerships, publicly traded partnerships, large law firms and other industries. On average, these partnerships each have more than $10 billion in assets.
Believe me when I tell you a partnership with $10b assets is insane. Auditing that is extremely labor intensive and requires a ton of highly specialized skills and that all requires resources.
There’s really nothing left to argue here so please just take this at face value and move on.
Right, well, anyway, the IRS budget just got a huge increase under the Biden administration new budget. They’re finally hiring a ton of new agents and updating their ancient tech etc. The R party fought tooth and nail against this and there’s an active smear campaign to make the average person afraid they’re coming after you. R’s managed to reduce the budget increase which is going to reduce the IRS ability to go after the whales, as you were griping about in your original post.
Yeah this is completely normal and not at all anything to flip out about. Honestly I’m surprised the reporting threshold was ever $20k to begin with. The 1099 reporting threshold for contractors has been $600 for over a decade now so I would’ve assumed the same for scalpers.
It’s super easy to implement, comply, and enforce this. Like almost automated levels of easy. It’s significantly more complex and requires tons of resources and expertise to go after the whales as you say. Resources they just don’t have. Resources that might be wasted if/when it turns out the taxpayer is fully compliant within reason.
It’s not about double standards, it’s purely logistics and resources - at least on the IRS side. Congress is responsible for their funding, or lack thereof, and it doesn’t take long to figure out who’s responsible for the lack of it. So I’d encourage you to focus your ire on the response political party, not the IRS itself.
All that happened here is they lowered the reporting threshold to cast a wider net and force people to reported income they otherwise could have just not mentioned. It’s not quite like flipping a switch but it’s relatively easy to comply with, and relatively easy to enforce. “Fixing taxes” is significantly more complicated, to say the least.
Maybe I’ll buy that handgun after all. Really pisses me off that I’m forced to consider this option because people are too stupid and stubborn to realize they themselves owned walking untrained lethal weapons.
That’s such a great angle, calling all republican presidents DEI hires from the electoral college lol