Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) shares his message to voters in the Uncommitted Movement who are considering not voting in the presidential race over the Biden administration's handling of Israel.
I’m a leftist. I don’t want you to change whoever you’re voting for, vote what you feel is right.
What I do want you to do is be honest. I believe that the only way we can fix things is to admit the reality of the situation that we’re in.
I want you to admit that you’re voting for a genocidal candidate. Because either way if you’re voting Trump or Harris, you’re voting a genocidal candidate.
Once you can admit that, then we can start thinking about fixing it.
If you’re just going to shove your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge your complicity in the system, then you are a slave to it.
I have not seen many leftists not agree that both votes are for genocide - that’s just a given.
But protesting the system during the election is daft. Do you want genocide, or more genocide? You are not a slave to the system if you vote and then actually do something about it to change it.
Ignoring the current system is plain ignorance. Voting doesn’t make you a slave. Voting and giving up makes you a slave. How about vote and campaign for change instead. Despair does not lead to change.
I have not seen many leftists not agree that both votes are for genocide - that’s just a given.
Neither have I. I’ve seen hundreds of liberals argue that fact, though. I’ve had comments deleted elsewhere on Lemmy for “misinformation” for stating that Harris is genocidal.
So I apologise for not sharing your hopeful perspective that we can change the system after the election, because your peers refuse to acknowledge that the system needs to be changed. Perhaps you need to be replying to commenters other than me, because you don’t need to persuade me. Persuade THEM. The rest of the democrat-voting public.
There are also some great ways to get written off by the Democratic Party. Frequently not voting or voting third party makes for an unreliable constituency. No politician is going to pay a group that plays hard to get much heed. But for a constituency that turns out and works to turn out others, they’re going to be all ears. There’s a reason causes championed by Black women always feature fairly heavily in the Democratic Party platform. They really punch above their weight.
I am a reliable d voter. I’m the block you claim they cater to. I’ve voted in literally every election able always for D. Ole reliable. Except a genocide is a step to far. They could win me back and many other reliable Dems if they did one crazy trick…
first off: if you consistently vote for a candidate no matter what they do then they can write you off.
No politician is going to pay a group that plays hard to get much heed.
imagine thinking drawing a line at ‘genocide’ is playing hard to get. my god the bar is so low. no wonder we dont have any fucking working class rights. thanks, you definitely know what your doing.
There’s a reason causes championed by Black women always feature fairly heavily in the Democratic Party platform.
yes. do tell. how exactly have the democrats have targetted black women issues specifically? go on I’ll wait.
The real issue is democrats get funding from the 1% and are unwilling to promote worker rights. that’s why they write off the left base issues. fortunately for them the left has been bolstering them regardless every election for decades despite this because republicans would literally murder people for being different. And that generally continues, even right now with harris.
If you look at the policies from harris’ campaign and compare it to 2016/2020.
no healthcare reform mostly just give aways to insurance companies through tax credits.
no minimum wage increase.
wont commit to keeping kahn the most effective FTC chair in more than 4 decades.
wont commit to supporting striking workers.
no mandated PTO/Sick leave for workers.
seems more corporate friendly than worker friendly to me. then add in a genocide on top and completely dismissing a minority group because they are inconvenient and here we are.
What left wing people are really telling you:
vote for what you think is best. If you’re in a safe state go wild on third party candidates. swing state? probably better off w/ harris.
let your reps know that your vote is at risk if the genocide continues post election. and then follow through in the next cycle.
A lot of what you’re listing off is more a symptom of Harris entering the race so late. She’s barely had the time to put together a campaign, let alone flesh out a real policy platform. That usually takes a long time, especially given that she has to show some level of independence from Biden while also
no healthcare reform mostly just give aways to insurance companies through tax credits.
What type of healthcare reform are you referring to? I don’t think that anything terribly drastic is really going to happen within the foreseeable future. The Democrats burned a 60-40 majority in the Senate just to get the ACA, a relatively modest reform, through Congress. Something like single payer does poll well… until you remind people that there’s no free lunch.
no minimum wage increase
She supports an increase to $15/hour, but that was pretty recent.
wont commit to keeping kahn the most effective FTC chair in more than 4 decades.
I won’t defend her here, she should have the courage to tell her tech allies that she’s not going to topple Kahn.
wont commit to supporting striking workers.
I’m not exactly sure what this means. The Biden administration has strengthened labor’s hand on the NLRB, which marked a significant difference from the Trump administration. Are you referring to the railroad strike of 2022?
no mandated PTO/Sick leave for workers.
What left wing people are really telling you:
I would be fine if that was what everyone was actually saying, but I hear a lot of people encouraging not voting or voting third party this cycle.
let your reps know that your vote is at risk if the genocide continues post election. and then follow through in the next cycle.
Politicians are trying to paste together a winning coalition. That’s why you’ll see Kamala’s platform roughly representing the center-left, that is a winning platform for a general election. The problem with having a hard line non-mainstream view on something like the Israel-Palestine conflict is that playing hard to get will only get you so far. If your opinion isn’t supported by the majority, it’s very, very hard to get a politician’s support.
Tim Walz for one has legislated paid leave. If Walz has half the power under Harris’ governing as people seem to believe Harris has under Biden I’d fully expect paid leave out of the Harris Walz admin.
That breaks down when you consider how long Democrats have been moving to the right in order to appease Republican voters. Republicans aren’t known for consistently voting dem.
Vote this election then. And then campaign after the election. What’s stopping you from being the change later? Why teach the a lesson now, when the alternative is Drumpf?
I would argue: Look at the what the people doing the genocide want and vote for their most likely opposition.
Its clear The Heritage Foundation, Netanyahu, Putin, Musk, Thiel etc want Trump to win. I would recommend Voting Kamala on those grounds as denying your enemy a win is far better strategic use of voting as a tool than believing the democrats will ever do the right thing.
I already have. How many times do I have to say that I HAVE ALREADY VOTED FOR HARRIS.
And then campaign after the election.
Centrists are great at coming up with excuses for why it’s never the time to do what they don’t want to do. There will be a new excuse and a new timetable for when it will be acceptable to say anything in opposition to centrists’ genocide. When that passes, there will be another date and another excuse.
We just have to do it when we won’t inconvenience them with a changing world and they can go on doing exactly what they are. Preferably so quiet they can forget we exist.
I 100% agree that this is classic manufactured consent, and there is no real choice in this election.
I also want there to be a real choice in the future. The least we can do in the future is get ranked choice voting and do away with the electoral college. Almost literally the least; those are so bare minimum that they can’t even be called radical.
Your reading comprehension is fucking atrocious, then. Even when Biden was the candidate, the vast majority has been saying “ok, continuing to support Isreal as they commit war atrocities is bad, but Trump would be much worse” for Gaza, and a ton of other things. Like democracy in America, for starters"
There are no lines to read between. It’s the bold text that we accept that a vote for Dems is a vote for genocide. But given no other plausible alternative, and the enormous risk to a plethora of other issues that Trump represents, voting for less genocide is the best option on the table.
But you are well aware this. You’re just arguing under false pretext to strawman your way to voter disenfranchisement.
A vote isnt an endorsement. Viewing it as one is a permanent commitment non-voting because even if like Bernie Sanders was being elected people would just say his support of Joe Biden eliminates him from ever being a moral vote.
I would instead say its better to view a vote as strategic tool: its better to deny your enemies a win than let them have one for free. For the Gaza Genocide, I think we can all agree the villain here is Netanyahu and his preference is Trump. A vote for Kamala here may not solve anything, but it does deny Netanyahu additional support he might get.
Okay, cool. Go ahead and state the case, then, if it’s such an obvious fact. Go ahead and say “I will be voting for a genocidal candidate this election, because that is what my country’s political system forced me to do.”
I will be truly impressed if you actually do it.
Most people find some excuse not to. That’s the problem we have.
It’s the bold text that we accept that a vote for Dems is a vote for genocide. But given no other plausible alternative, and the enormous risk to a plethora of other issues that Trump represents, voting for less genocide is the best option on the table.
I literally bolded it for you this time.
Or if you want me to put in in terms of self:
I support a candidate that supports genocide because they support less genocide than the only other plausible option. Both in Gaza and in Ukraine. And less blatant corruption. And less erosion of rights. And less lynching of minorities. And less open encouragement of domestic terrorism.
There, you got your soundbite. Take the bolded portion and pass it around to your comrads out of context for all I care.
Keep on attacking that imaginary strawman. Lemmy .world connected communities as a whole accept the very obvious reality of what the stakes are. In every political thread, this is spelled out over and over because of you “leftists” trying to disenfranchise Dem voters exclusively.
There are plenty of memes caricaturizing you clowns.
They won’t say it, because this is not the argument they want to have. They are much more comfortable talking about how their candidate is so smart and competent when the fact is their candidate is also a bloodthirsty monster. If they really accept that fact, they can’t go back to pretending they’re voting for “a very serious adult”.
I’m a leftist. I don’t want you to change whoever you’re voting for, vote what you feel is right.
What I do want you to do is be honest. I believe that the only way we can fix things is to admit the reality of the situation that we’re in.
I want you to admit that you’re voting for a genocidal candidate. Because either way if you’re voting Trump or Harris, you’re voting a genocidal candidate.
Once you can admit that, then we can start thinking about fixing it.
If you’re just going to shove your head in the sand and refuse to acknowledge your complicity in the system, then you are a slave to it.
I have not seen many leftists not agree that both votes are for genocide - that’s just a given.
But protesting the system during the election is daft. Do you want genocide, or more genocide? You are not a slave to the system if you vote and then actually do something about it to change it.
Ignoring the current system is plain ignorance. Voting doesn’t make you a slave. Voting and giving up makes you a slave. How about vote and campaign for change instead. Despair does not lead to change.
Neither have I. I’ve seen hundreds of liberals argue that fact, though. I’ve had comments deleted elsewhere on Lemmy for “misinformation” for stating that Harris is genocidal.
So I apologise for not sharing your hopeful perspective that we can change the system after the election, because your peers refuse to acknowledge that the system needs to be changed. Perhaps you need to be replying to commenters other than me, because you don’t need to persuade me. Persuade THEM. The rest of the democrat-voting public.
There are also some great ways to get written off by the Democratic Party. Frequently not voting or voting third party makes for an unreliable constituency. No politician is going to pay a group that plays hard to get much heed. But for a constituency that turns out and works to turn out others, they’re going to be all ears. There’s a reason causes championed by Black women always feature fairly heavily in the Democratic Party platform. They really punch above their weight.
I am a reliable d voter. I’m the block you claim they cater to. I’ve voted in literally every election able always for D. Ole reliable. Except a genocide is a step to far. They could win me back and many other reliable Dems if they did one crazy trick…
this is just incorrect on so many levels.
first off: if you consistently vote for a candidate no matter what they do then they can write you off.
imagine thinking drawing a line at ‘genocide’ is playing hard to get. my god the bar is so low. no wonder we dont have any fucking working class rights. thanks, you definitely know what your doing.
yes. do tell. how exactly have the democrats have targetted black women issues specifically? go on I’ll wait.
The real issue is democrats get funding from the 1% and are unwilling to promote worker rights. that’s why they write off the left base issues. fortunately for them the left has been bolstering them regardless every election for decades despite this because republicans would literally murder people for being different. And that generally continues, even right now with harris.
If you look at the policies from harris’ campaign and compare it to 2016/2020.
seems more corporate friendly than worker friendly to me. then add in a genocide on top and completely dismissing a minority group because they are inconvenient and here we are.
What left wing people are really telling you:
A lot of what you’re listing off is more a symptom of Harris entering the race so late. She’s barely had the time to put together a campaign, let alone flesh out a real policy platform. That usually takes a long time, especially given that she has to show some level of independence from Biden while also
What type of healthcare reform are you referring to? I don’t think that anything terribly drastic is really going to happen within the foreseeable future. The Democrats burned a 60-40 majority in the Senate just to get the ACA, a relatively modest reform, through Congress. Something like single payer does poll well… until you remind people that there’s no free lunch.
She supports an increase to $15/hour, but that was pretty recent.
I won’t defend her here, she should have the courage to tell her tech allies that she’s not going to topple Kahn.
I’m not exactly sure what this means. The Biden administration has strengthened labor’s hand on the NLRB, which marked a significant difference from the Trump administration. Are you referring to the railroad strike of 2022?
I would be fine if that was what everyone was actually saying, but I hear a lot of people encouraging not voting or voting third party this cycle.
Politicians are trying to paste together a winning coalition. That’s why you’ll see Kamala’s platform roughly representing the center-left, that is a winning platform for a general election. The problem with having a hard line non-mainstream view on something like the Israel-Palestine conflict is that playing hard to get will only get you so far. If your opinion isn’t supported by the majority, it’s very, very hard to get a politician’s support.
Tim Walz for one has legislated paid leave. If Walz has half the power under Harris’ governing as people seem to believe Harris has under Biden I’d fully expect paid leave out of the Harris Walz admin.
That breaks down when you consider how long Democrats have been moving to the right in order to appease Republican voters. Republicans aren’t known for consistently voting dem.
Vote this election then. And then campaign after the election. What’s stopping you from being the change later? Why teach the a lesson now, when the alternative is Drumpf?
I would argue: Look at the what the people doing the genocide want and vote for their most likely opposition.
Its clear The Heritage Foundation, Netanyahu, Putin, Musk, Thiel etc want Trump to win. I would recommend Voting Kamala on those grounds as denying your enemy a win is far better strategic use of voting as a tool than believing the democrats will ever do the right thing.
Oh for fucks sake. Like an abusive relationship.
“I swear this time it will be different!!”
I already have. How many times do I have to say that I HAVE ALREADY VOTED FOR HARRIS.
Centrists are great at coming up with excuses for why it’s never the time to do what they don’t want to do. There will be a new excuse and a new timetable for when it will be acceptable to say anything in opposition to centrists’ genocide. When that passes, there will be another date and another excuse.
We just have to do it when we won’t inconvenience them with a changing world and they can go on doing exactly what they are. Preferably so quiet they can forget we exist.
I 100% agree that this is classic manufactured consent, and there is no real choice in this election.
I also want there to be a real choice in the future. The least we can do in the future is get ranked choice voting and do away with the electoral college. Almost literally the least; those are so bare minimum that they can’t even be called radical.
I sit here with my hand in the sand.
Your reading comprehension is fucking atrocious, then. Even when Biden was the candidate, the vast majority has been saying “ok, continuing to support Isreal as they commit war atrocities is bad, but Trump would be much worse” for Gaza, and a ton of other things. Like democracy in America, for starters"
There are no lines to read between. It’s the bold text that we accept that a vote for Dems is a vote for genocide. But given no other plausible alternative, and the enormous risk to a plethora of other issues that Trump represents, voting for less genocide is the best option on the table.
But you are well aware this. You’re just arguing under false pretext to strawman your way to voter disenfranchisement.
See, we can actually read between lines here.
A vote isnt an endorsement. Viewing it as one is a permanent commitment non-voting because even if like Bernie Sanders was being elected people would just say his support of Joe Biden eliminates him from ever being a moral vote.
I would instead say its better to view a vote as strategic tool: its better to deny your enemies a win than let them have one for free. For the Gaza Genocide, I think we can all agree the villain here is Netanyahu and his preference is Trump. A vote for Kamala here may not solve anything, but it does deny Netanyahu additional support he might get.
Okay, cool. Go ahead and state the case, then, if it’s such an obvious fact. Go ahead and say “I will be voting for a genocidal candidate this election, because that is what my country’s political system forced me to do.”
I will be truly impressed if you actually do it.
Most people find some excuse not to. That’s the problem we have.
Jfc.
I literally bolded it for you this time.
Or if you want me to put in in terms of self:
I support a candidate that supports genocide because they support less genocide than the only other plausible option. Both in Gaza and in Ukraine. And less blatant corruption. And less erosion of rights. And less lynching of minorities. And less open encouragement of domestic terrorism.
There, you got your soundbite. Take the bolded portion and pass it around to your comrads out of context for all I care.
Good for you, I am impressed! Now help us convince all the other democrat voters to do the same and we might actually be able to fix this.
Keep on attacking that imaginary strawman. Lemmy .world connected communities as a whole accept the very obvious reality of what the stakes are. In every political thread, this is spelled out over and over because of you “leftists” trying to disenfranchise Dem voters exclusively.
There are plenty of memes caricaturizing you clowns.
https://lemmy.world/post/21329323
“strawman”
They won’t say it, because this is not the argument they want to have. They are much more comfortable talking about how their candidate is so smart and competent when the fact is their candidate is also a bloodthirsty monster. If they really accept that fact, they can’t go back to pretending they’re voting for “a very serious adult”.