The long fight to make Apple’s iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union’s Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that “gatekeepers” not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google’s parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.
On the tech side, Android users also get lower-quality photos and videos when they’re sent through iMessage.
Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage; the whole conversation becomes SMS/MMS. I suppose getting major, relevant tech details is hard for an outlet like Engadget.
I think you’re just being pedantic here.
I’m pretty sure they meant when messages are sent using the iMessage app - from the point of view of iPhone user distinction between iMessage protocol and SMS/MMS doesn’t matter.
The app is called Messages. The entire point of the article is to discuss iMessages versus SMS so I absolutely do think it’s important to get the distinction right in this case.
But the statement made is not incorrect. I agree that a note that it’s because the conversation switches to S/MMS would be handy, but they’re not incorrect.
(When photos and videos are sent to an Android user through iMessage), (Android users receive lower-quality photos and videos [via being downgraded to SMS/MMS).
The statement in the article is literally incorrect. You cannot send a message to an Android user through iMessage. That fact is at the core of the discussion and they got it wrong. It’s not degraded from an iMessage. The conversation is just happening over SMS/MMS, as the Messages app has supported since launch in 2007.
The surrounding context of that statement is talking about the app, not the protocol. From the Apple user’s perspective, they see no difference except for the bubble color.
They do actually, the bubbles are a different color!
Good point!
Isn’t the app on Apple devices called Messages? I thought iMessage was the name of their e2ee internet messaging protocol.
Again, protocols are core to the discussion, and from the user’s perspective which protocol they are using is very obvious (which, again, is core to the discussion). This isn’t some trivial detail to get wrong. If they author can’t carefully distinguish themselves and educate their audience, why are they even writing about it in the first place?
You went from being pedantic to straight up disingenuous.
No reasonable person reading that line would think they were talking about the protocol. You picked out one thing you thought you could pick apart, and it makes no sense. When called out on it, you’re doubling down.
Move on, man.
when they’re sent through iMessage.
Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage
Your whole argument is based on failing to distinguish sending from receiving. You understand those are different things, right?
There is nothing to distinguish here. iMessage is the protocol and messaging platform. An iMessage sent remains as an iMessage when received. Android users are not sent and do not receive iMessages. They are sent SMS/MMS and they receive SMS/MMS. If all of the iMessage servers exploded right now, nothing at all would change in Apple to Android messaging because iMessage was never involved.
iMessage is the protocol and messaging platform.
You’re forgetting the most important thing it is to users: an app. An app that sends messages. Messages that can be received by Android devices because iMessage automatically sends over SMS.
An iMessage sent remains as an iMessage when received.
This might be true from a certain technical perspective, depending on what you mean by “an iMessage”, but it’s certainly not true from a user perspective. The user sends a message from the iMessage app and doesn’t care much whether it’s delivered by iMessage or SMS. Messages sent by iMessage are automatically degraded when sent over SMS if they contain media or use iMessage-specific features. Ergo a message is sent by iMessage and received by an Android device as an SMS message.
If all of the iMessage servers exploded right now, nothing at all would change in Apple to Android messaging because iMessage was never involved.
iMessage the app is always involved.
You’re forgetting the most important thing it is to users: an app.
iMessage is not an app. It has never been an app. It is one of the ways a message can be sent/received in the Messages app. And yes, users of the Messages app are extremely aware of the distinction between sending an iMessage versus an SMS or MMS.
Spot on. The iPhone’s Messages app sends messages as iMessages, SMS, or MMS depending on context. And it makes it obvious. Every iPhone user knows blue vs green. It’s not sneaky or anything.
There is no apple iMessage app.
This is the Apple Message app. Its description in the store makes its functionality very clear.
iMessage isn’t an app… you’re not paying attention to what they’re saying at all. iMessage has never been an app. It’s a protocol for Apple messages through their server hardware. Messages is the app, Messages can send emails, sms, mms, and iMessages.
So you want “when they’re sent [from] iMessage”? I think you’re being really pedantic.
They’re not sent from iMessage. That is the point. If you write an article in a tech publication talking about messaging apps and protocols, you need to get the names right.
From what I know the user is still using iMessage, they are just translated into SMS and sent out.
The user is using the Messages app, which launched with support for SMS and MMS. Years later, Apple added iMessage as a third protocol to the app for use when messaging other Apple devices if they both turn iMessage on. If you message with an Android user, it remains with the default SMS and MMS. Nothing is being translated or downgraded; it’s just the original, default functionality of the app.
When the user clicks on the app to message people, is that app that they click on (the name they see) labelled “iMessage” or “Messages”?
The app is literally called „Messages“
The textfield where you type will say iMessage for iMessage contacts and will say sms message for everyone else
Ok so the original statement should be “when they’re sent through [Apple’s Message]” but honestly this is still being extremely picky.
Low quality SMS. There are lots of things Apple could do to improve the experience of texting people without iMessage, lots of things built into the SMS standard that they do t implement.
Edit: wow thought this was commonly known. Basically Apple hasn’t adopted industry standard SMS improvements. There’s a whole campaign to try to get them to. Here’s an article explaining https://www.android.com/get-the-message/
What on earth is “low quality SMS”? And what parts of the SMS communication protocols don’t they implement?
What exactly?
RCS is not SMS and has nothing to do with the SMS standard.
Basically Apple hasn’t adopted industry standard SMS improvements. There’s a whole campaign to try to get them to.
This is an advertising campaign to get Apple to adopt Google’s proprietary version of RCS, which is not the SMS standard. It is, functionally, Google’s own version of iMessage, running Google software on Google servers.
This is just false, it’s sent over carrier networks and the carriers decide whose infrastructure to use. Google is one of several options. RCS is an open standard and it is the industry standard for SMS. It’s literally why every other non iphone can send high quality pictures to each other. Apple not adopting it is anti competitive.
it’s sent over carrier networks and the carriers decide whose infrastructure to use.
The carriers never bothered to implement RCS; they just outsourced the whole thing to Google.
RCS is an open standard
That nobody uses.
it is the industry standard for SMS.
It’s meant as a replacement for SMS. It’s not just some new version of SMS that Apple hasn’t upgraded to, which is what you were basically saying earlier.
It’s literally why every other non iphone can send high quality pictures to each other.
It’s a messaging service used exclusively by Android phones. iPhones all support iMessage; Androids (mostly) all support RCS. All of those iMessages go over Apple’s servers; all of those RCS messages go over Google’s servers.
For what it’s worth, iPhones have supported sending full-quality pictures to everyone over a legitimately open protocol since launch day. It’s called email.
Apple not adopting it is anti competitive.
Google’s attempts to legally force Apple to adopt its proprietary platform is transparently anticompetitive.
But nobody in Europe uses iMessage.
I presume apple users do occasionally…
I guess this is a way for google to force apple to open the protocol since they can’t just open it in the EU, so it affects the US too. But the EU don’t have to listen to google… if imessage is such a minor player they may just leave it alone.
We use it when WhatsApp has server problems every once in a while or for a round of GamePigeon.
Ironically, in Europe you’d be “missing out” on most group conversations if you’d insist on using iMessage, as most of your buddies probably have an Android phone with WhatsApp installed.
Not really.
For example, in Sweden, probably half as high of a percentage of people have iPhones as the US and yet everyone uses Facebook messenger and whatsapp, at least when I studied there 5 years ago.
The EU won’t leave Apple alone, that’s the whole purpose of the Digital Markets Act (prevent “gatekeepers” from excluding other players).
The irony here is that Google is throwing stones when they have huge glass roofs. This law will certainly bite them back elsewhere, hopefully. We need strong laws to curb these modern day robber barons.
I never understood why WhatsApp is so popular. I used it (a long time ago) and just don’t see it.
It’s the network effect. Everyone else uses it - so it is easier to just use it than to not use it.
Basically in a lot of Europe texting was or still is expensive and not unlimited and WhatsApp was a free alternative and Meta did not own it at the time.
So everyone was like well fuck texting and adopted apps like WhatsApp and then Meta bought WhatsApp. Now in these countries it’s the defacto standard whether you like it or not. Businesses, people, and even sometimes government uses it as the default way to text. It sucks.
Also WhatsApp had photos and shit. And no, MMS doesn’t count. I don’t even want to hear about MMS anymore.
MMS and UMTS videocalls were dead in the water the second mobile carriers tried to charge a truckload for that. They did this, they basically made Whatsapp the standard.
We use Whatsapp a lot in Europe, but business fronts still communicate with phone and email. Meanwhile, in Indonesia, everything is on whatsapp! You book an hotel? whatsapp message. You need a taxi? whatsapp! you want to order in room service? send a whatsapp message, there’s not even a phone in the room. A tour guide will contact you directly on whatsapp, if you don’t have it installed, good luck.
Doesn’t it just use you phone number though? Like I could set it to be my default texting app, just like a ton of different texting apps.
Yes, why?
So it’s more that companies text you. You don’t need WhatsApp to send or receive those texts. So why do you need it installed or good luck? Is there some other functionality?
Here in the Netherlands a ton of businesses use WhatsApp. You see it listed as a primary contact method on stationary, signs, vehicles, advertisements, etc all the time here.
That’s fascinating! Love NL btw, amazing country!
I wish the US could have been the same in developing on internet messaging. Instead, It’s virtually impossible to find a plan that doesn’t have unlimited SMS and therefore no one ever sees the antiqueness of SMS to be an issue.
I see pros and cons to it. I really do not like having WhatsApp be the default text platform. Seems like a huge conflict of interest.
One thing the EU is a clear winner on now is plan pricing. It’s insane how much cheaper cell service here than in the states.
Because it gave the possibility of free text and calling over the internet , that was a big deal for many developing countries and it is very simple to use. Like I heard some Apple fanboys said that iMessage comes already installed with the phone? And on my mind I am like : How hard is to download an app and just put your phone number you are up and running in less than 2 minutes.
Even in non developing countries. Texting has historically been expensive and limited in a lot of the EU. My plan is still limited to something like 150 texts a month and I’d have to pay extra to work around that, but even if I did it wouldn’t be worth the money because nobody uses text here.
You want to tell Europe is a developing country? 😂 /s
Lol no , It just that Europeans are not lazy as some Americans who can’t even take 2 minutes to install an app.
You just explained why Europeans have a lot more motivation to install it than Americans do, yet you immediately jump to laziness as an explanation for why Americans aren’t as eager to adopt an app they have little reason to care about.
Your attempt to criticize Americans is very…what’s the word…oh yeah, lazy.
Who did say that apple fanboys are only Americans? 🌚
Damn, -3 and I didn’t even forget “/s”, what have I done wrong xD
No other country offered unlimited texting back in the day.
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iMessage technically isn’t SMS. It just supports it as an additional protocol. On Android, Facebook Messenger
and Signalbehaves similarly (because android lets apps become the default SMS handler).Just FYI Signal no longer supports SMS. They decided it “leads to confusion” and a partially secure app is not good enough. Led me to stop donating to them.
No. But we have the same reliance now on WhatsApp as the US does with iMessage.
I’d love to see RCS become the norm so I can ditch WhatsApp.
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Ted Lasso? That TV series created by check notes Apple?
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It’s WhatsApp through and through.
The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?
Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.
The EU isn’t going to swap one closed proprietary service for another. If iMessage is included under the DMA as a core platform service, it will require Apple to permit interoperability. I.e. the creation of open APIs. Google, and anyone else, can choose to build connectors into their own apps.
I love the fact that Lemmy users here don’t know shit about how these tech works and they will jump on Apple hate every chance they get. And your comment must raise Linux and open source etc or else it will be an instance downvote.
It’s a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.
Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.
We’re not. Just calling out the hypocrisy of Google.
Since we know Apple is the lesser of 2 evils and Google is a crying baby
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This feels a bit like asking MS Teams to play nice with Google Meet, or demanding that Apple’s office suite (Pages, Numbers, etc.) deliver the exact same product when files are saved in an OpenOffice format. This doesn’t seem to be an issue with any other products…
Apple have designed their product to work well with their devices. The Messages app still functions with non-Apple devices. SMS messages can be sent and received to anyone. The fact that pictures and whatever come through like crap is more an issue with the SMS platform than it is with Apple’s app.
Ultimately, Google dislikes the fact that there is a “green bubble” stigma (for lack of a better word) on Apple devices that encourages those who care about such things to prefer Apple devices. Because Google doesn’t have their own widely used iMessage equivalent, they can’t turn around and make messages outside their platform appear as red bubbles or something, so they are attacking from this angle instead.
Sent from my iPhone
Sent from my iPhone
That’s hilarious
They’re not joking. They use iPhone.
Yes but there is no green bubble stigma in Europe… We all use whatsapp and signal.
I mean, fuck, there’s no green bubble stigma in the US either. I have never once heard people complain about it in the real world
You’re lucky then, I hear people complain about it all the time
Exactly. It’s a complete non-issue in Europe.
Google are attempting to start this fight in Europe in hopes that they can push Apple to change in the US as well. The whole green bubble thing is US-only, but Google haven’t been even remotely successful in trying to force Apple to change, and Apple’s “remedy” to the issue is “Get an iPhone”.
Google is pushing RMS, which they would control, and is designed to push you ads and usage metrics back to them.
I haven’t seen a valid reason to get rid of SMS though.
It’s RCS not RMS and Google didnt even want control of it in the first place, it’s well documented Google has been trying to get US carriers to stop dragging their feet on RCS for a long time. They never did until Google literally went “Fine, I’ll do it myself then”
AND RCS is an open protocol, nobody really has “control” over it, Google runs some RCS servers but if it disappeared tomorrow (Or you changed the defaults) RCS itself would run just fine on whatever including if Apple supports RCS
ETA: Also SMS is absolute trash, it’s from the early 90’s (it’s older than me FFS) it doesn’t really support what we want out of it media wise today, and what it does support it was forced to. It’ll send “video” but it’ll be completely unrecognizable. It needs to be put to pasture already.
It will be an easier sell if Google manages to get their proprietary extensions to RCS into RCS version 10, rather than only being supported in Google Messenger
SMS takes less bandwidth and is perfect for large broadcast messages and works perfectly fine for text based messaging. The only major problems it has are security and media, which while are valid needs, are not a reason to get rid of one of the few universally accepted standards
SMS should have been a fallback years ago and nothing more, it’s absolutely asinine that it’s still in as much use as it is today
It doesn’t need to be a fallback. It’s still perfect for text messages, government alerts, mass notification of customers, etc.
It’s barely used today anyways. The only time it’s used on iPhone is if you’re messaging someone outside the iMessage ecosystem, which really isn’t a problem for 95% of Apple users.
I don’t know why you insist on holding onto a 30+ year old protocol. It’s not perfect and at times it can be downright unreliable. Once it’s left your phone you have no idea if it was successfully delivered or not, there’s no acknowledgement no retrys no retransmits. It just shoots it off and hopes for the best.
Group chats are laughably broken even among all SMS recipients (It was never intended for it anyway) and frankly the bandwidth required for text regardless of if it’s over SMS or RCS is inconsequential, who cares if RCS messages need a bit more bandwidth to send text. The difference is negligible.
That’s why it works so well. What you see as problems with SMS I see as good design decisions. It’s an incredibly simple implementation that does exactly what it’s supposed to. You just want it to do more than it needs to.
Something will eventually replace it, but it sure as hell won’t be RCS. RCS is a defacto google standard now. Many features are locked out if you don’t use google servers. It’s not an open standard and it’s disingenuous to portray it as one.
Google is pushing RMS, which they would control
Hardest of hard passes, even if I were on Android.
Again, Google don’t have their own iMessage that is widely used, so instead of compete on that level, they want to own the whole system.
Anybody remember Hangouts? Google’s iMessage that was better in every conceivable way than its Apple analog, integrated with Google voice, could be accessed anywhere you could get on Gmail etc? Dropping the ball on Hangouts to favor carrier pre-installed messaging Apps was such an incredible and short-sighted blunder. I concede that exactly like their many app deprecations/cut-and-runs that did not take the long-term sentiment of the end user into account and damaged their reputation and adoption. And now here we are… trying to grovel back into iMessage’s purview.
When they killed hangouts was when I think everyone stopped trying to adopt google products. What’s the point, it will be killed.
I think you’re right. I got some people to start using Hangouts and then Google killed it. I don’t even bother to learn what Google has available now for chats because I know now there’s no point to trying to get people to switch, no matter how good/bad it may be.
Name a better duo than Google and killing off products
Name a better duo than Google and killing off products
Yes, duo is on that list.
oof
*EA enters the chat
Wait you thought hangouts was good? Holy shit would that be one of the worst Google offerings of the decade if it wasn’t for the ten other Google chat and video systems they have made. My god I can’t think of a worse communication platform than hangouts. You might be the first person I’ve heard of liking it.
I don’t want to make assumptions, but your reply makes me think you arrived at Hangouts once it was already being deprecated by Google. Granted, being US based I didn’t need the coverage of WhatsApp (limited as they was even then to phone # accounts), the scant usage of Viber or the other innumerable messaging apps I touched in that time period. Hangouts integrated seamlessly with SMS, let me send media/stickers/map embeds to mixed-platform groups never worrying about quality downgrade. And did I mention that one could access Hangouts (and its SMS pass through server) from any machine in the world through Gmail? iMessage makes you jump hoops to do that shit today.
And did I mention that one could access Hangouts (and its SMS pass through server) from any machine in the world through Gmail?
this was actually one of the things I hated the most about it. It doesn’t really matter what features you provide when the product is so bad it can’t even make up for it. I had no clue it had sms passthrough, it was just a shitty chat/voice client integrated into my email client, slowly making things slower and slower the more they added.
Bingo. This whole case is designed to make Apple look like the bad guy whilst Google hides their real agenda of forcing Apple to use a protocol Google controls and thus stamp out Google’s competition.
From what I’ve read, Google just owns the reference implementation. Apple could implement it themselves, but then lose out on certain non-cross-platform features, like e2e encryption.
I’ve read the specification. Google’s implementation is the only real implementation (raw RCS is basically a dead project) as Google have added a load of custom extensions to RCS that means, to be interoperable, you’d need to use Google’s (which I imagine requires licensing since it doesn’t appear to be open source).
That’s basically what I said, but better.
You’re like a lot of people on Lemmy: so eager to paint everything even tangentially connected to Google as some kind of grand conspiracy that you can’t even get the most basic facts right.
It’s quite literally well documented that Apple doesn’t want to support RCS because it pressures people to get iPhones. SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement and RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
Google wants Apple to use Google’s proprietary extension of RCS, which runs on Google’s own servers as is precisely as open as iMessage. Effectively nobody uses the industry-standard version of it.
Where’s the source for that? Last I read, Google was using the GSMA Universal RCS profile
Google does own and run the Jibe platform as an RCS vendor, but Apple doesn’t need to use it. They can go with a different vendor or run their own RCS servers just as easily
Google’s astroturf campaign for “RCS” promotes encrypted messages but RCS has no support for this. Google wants to force people to use its proprietary extension, which runs exclusively on Google’s servers.
And absolutely nothing is stopping Apple from rolling its own RCS extensions that apps can support as well
So what’s the idea here? Apple rolls out another extended version of RCS that’s proprietary as well?
It might be proprietary, but at least any messaging app Android, iOS or some future third competitor will be able to implement it.
Unlike iMessage which is both proprietary and closed off from third party use
SMS is like the minimum though, and not supporting all features that could be supported by the major ones somewhat counts as gatekeeping.
Legitimately can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
Oh, now you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!
EDIT: Also, we European literally don’t care. Everyone is using Whatsapp or Telegram. There’s no “Blue vs green bubble” war here in Europe, only America can get angry on such idiocy.
Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.
The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.
It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.
I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?
So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.
Call someone? In America? They’d rather text. I’m in one of these group messages, apparently my bubble is a different color. Though I like my phone from Taiwan, so they can deal with it
Lol, yep.
I don’t take unscheduled calls. My phone doesn’t even ring, I see nothing. All calls are forwarded to voicemail unless I’ve set them not to. I don’t have time for unsolicited calls (and 99.9% of calls I get are spam).
If my bubble color is a problem for you, it’s a problem for you, not me.
Let’s be clear, Apple users who refuse to use other apps are excluding 80% of other users. We need to make it painful for them, not help work around the issue. It was their choice to use an app that can’t be used by most people.
Hell, I carry an iPhone for work, and use multiple apps there.
I use Beeper and it blows the minds of those iMessage dorks
I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.
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So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.
If this law passes they may very well have to.
I don’t care as long as the result isn’t less secure or less private than iMessage is now. Google has zero percent of my trust at this point, on the privacy front.
RCS is an open standard not owned by Google
I meant their closed network for it, not the standard.
Just thought it was worth clarifying since a lot of people treat RCS and Google Messages like the same thing when one is a Google product (Google Messages) and the other is an open standard (RCS)
Google Messages is built on RCS but if Apple wanted interoperability they would only need to support the open standard (RCS) not use any of Google’s code or require Google’s permission.
Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.
When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I’d still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.
I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn’t want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don’t really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don’t know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it’s my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can’t really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she’s 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)
My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I’d be complicating their lives too far. But I’m still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back
On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?
They didn’t make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don’t even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who’s talking to whom is worth gold.
What is that username
Latin vora, from vorare ‘to eat or devour’. See “omnivore”, “carnivore”, “herbivore” etc.
Why, what did you think it means?
I know vore is a fictional sexual fetish where a person consumes an other person usually as food
It’s real life equivalent would be cannibalism excluding the swallowing whole part
Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.
I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.
It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.
Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.
Glass houses and stones.
That’s how corporations think. For them the law is just a set of weapons against their competitors.
The messages app supports SMS. That means it already “interoperates” with common messaging apps and platforms.
SMS is the bare minimum. The only reason iPhone supports it is because it was supported before iMessage was a thing. It was also so it could still communicate with “dumb” phones.
SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement, RCS
But Apple doesn’t want that because RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
RCS as a standard isn’t a replacement. RCS as a base project is dead.
Specifically Googles implementation is a replacement, but then it’s the exact same situation we’re in now, just with Google instead of Apple.
Specifically Googles implementation is a replacement, but then it’s the exact same situation we’re in now, just with Google instead of Apple.
No, because I can dig up official documentation for googles implementation. Where’s Apples iMessage documentation?
RCS is a replacement for SMS, it was intended for carriers to implement it as is standard in the EU. In the US however, the carriers have infamously resisted calls to get off their ass and implement it. Even Google was calling on carriers to do it for years, they only came out with their Jibe platform because the carriers weren’t doing their jobs
Does documentation matter if it’s still a closed platform? Imo it doesn’t.
RCS requiring 3rd party servers makes it not a replacement for sms. SMS is a very well thought out protocol that works exactly as intended, it just doesn’t have the bandwidth required for modern media.
Google can call on carriers all they want. It’s still a proprietary google implementation which is no better than Apple. And I trust Apple a hell of a lot more than google (which still isn’t a lot).
Yes, because documentation as I’m referencing it is for accessing the API. You can’t access iMessages API (Well without serious reverse engineering effort) so therefore they have no documentation
RCS is a standard, Google has it’s flavor and Apple could just as easily have their own or any other flavor.
SMS is antiquated and should be used for nothing more than a fallback at best. It’s 30+ years old.
I still don’t see that as any different. Apple has a proprietary implementation, google has an proprietary implementation. You like google because they have documentation. Neither is an open platform, yet you seem to be pushing google like it’s the bastion of open communication.
RCS is not standard, will not be standard and should not be standard.
SMS works perfectly fine. So what if it’s 30 years old. It still works exactly as intended.
It doesn’t have to be open, just provide publicly accessible APIs so that apps can interconnect with it. Google provides this, Apple does not.
To be clear IDGAF about Google. I promote RCS and you can say it’s not a standard, but it is. It’s maintained by the GSM Association and they put out a universal profile that anyone can implement and extend just like Google did and Apple could easily do. They’re just extending an existing standard.
Even in the Google messages app I can change the RCS backend servers at any time, you don’t have to use Googles RCS implementation
Lame excuse from Apple , we have to push for more open communications. Just like email.
Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.
RCS is too little, too late. Its encryption is problematic, and people currently using it can tell you how inconsistent it is. It’s what you get when industry players want to control things.
Why build RCS when everyone could use an existing, extensible protocol like XMPP? Yes, XMPP isn’t perfect, but had the RCS consortium started there, then agreed to support specific features, we’d have a much better solution today.
iMessage works.
That’s an interesting point. I have Google voice but I honestly don’t use it much. Are you a big Google voice user?
Yes. But it has “forgotten by Google” energy. It wouldn’t shock me if it joins the Google graveyard.
Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don’t give a crap about iMessage being open or not.
I only just found out this year that text messages from IPhone or Android are a different colour in the US, and people would judge you on that.
Fuckin hell, that’s elementary-school-level behaviour 😂
I use SMS a lot, in the EU. So does, most of my family, and friends. So idk where you get this from? GF and her friends and family too.
My understanding is that while the US and some others quickly moved to unlimited texting plans, many European countries continued to charge per text so apps like WhatsApp become the defacto replacement
In France we got unlimited texts at about the same time as unlimited data.
I don’t think a plan with unlimited data and limited texts ever existed.
In Sweden I can’t remember the last time I saw a plan that didn’t include unlimited sms and calls. Only thing marketed is data. However if you really search for them I guess it’s still possible to buy something else somewhere.
Yes this was many years ago. Nobody pays per-text anymore but the past restrictions influenced people’s preferred messaging services in a way that stuck
Why?
Because he’s wrong, most people use text in Europe. Even if it’s addition to an app like WhatsApp.
Only if you count receiving verification codes as “Using SMS”. Even my elderly parents only use messaging apps.
I don’t have anyone I contact through SMS.
There are a ton of different page patterns so I don’t think “Everyone” or “No one” is using SMS.
But, in my experience, they are used very very little by most people.
You probably use SMS mostly for getting codes
If you’re all on Android, it’s very likely you’re using RCS not SMS
I’m in the EU, I still use a lot the sms
Interesting! Why?
What else is there to use? SMS is the only cross platform protocol that works. MMS is horrible and Apple refuses ro support RCS. Of course SMS apps auto upgrades to RCS if both parties supports it which is in practice only between Androids.
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp, ICQ, FB messenger, Matrix, just to name a few!
None of those work without both people having the app and so provide a much worse experience over SMS, just why?
No, even if people didn’t use SMS, Apple market share is actually growing and it could lead to iMessage becoming dominant like it is in the US. Even if it won’t benefit us much, I’m sure Americans would appreciate the EU caring about it because the US government could never do it.
People with iPhones don’t use iMessage either. They use WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal etc.
WhatsApp is not a thing at all in Poland mate. It’s either SMS/RCS or fucking Messenger which has to be the worst one 😭
Poland has 15.8 million Whatsapp users.
Might be a western/southern Polish thing. I only know my uncles use it to talk to their children in Britain.
Oh man that sucks! I already hate that I have to use WhatsApp with people who don’t have Telegram, I’d be so angry if I had to use Messenger and even more angry if I had to SMS
All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp. And just be able to send and receive decent quality videos between iMessage and non-imessage users.
It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.
Why can’t it be like email?
Try Beeper!
Links all those services into one client using Matrix for the backend.
Drop me a DM if you want a referral code (that goes for anyone interested!)
Federated messaging services… this is actually a really cool idea.
But I guess big companies prefer walled gardens because it makes more money.
Because each platform is for a different use-case. Discord sucks. It’s one of the worst UI/UX I’ve ever seen, and I’ve been using computers since the late 70’s…punched cards are only slightly worse.
I could understand that until I experienced discords new mobile UI and the countless competitors. Definitely discord is better than all the others
Did you use ventrilo, teamspeak, icq, irc, any 90s chatroom?
Ui/ux has been pretty good for me who did in comparison
Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I’m usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.
I’m frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it’s not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that’s 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU
Outside USA and Canada, you’ll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.
because iMessage is probably the number 1 reason for iphone purchase in USA
this will obviously help google gain market share in the us
I highly doubt it’s the number 1 reason for iPhone purchase but also, why would Europe be regulating something that exclusively happens in the Us?
You can highly doubt all you want but go do some research on current consumer behavior after you are done doubting.
Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?
- Because those aren’t internet messages, RCS is supposed to supersede SMS and MMS, which is how Google whatever (hangouts? talk? messages?) sends messages to iPhone numbers. Meanwhile, apple-apple communication via iMessage is done via internet
- Because the standard is mostly controlled by Google and Samsung, Apple’s biggest rivals in the mobile space
- Because Google has been completely anal about being easily spotted in iPhone conversations for quite a while. It is pretty obvious that this has nothing to do with using better standards. AFAIK, even phones that can use RCS have it turned off by default.
- Because anyone with an internet connection already has access to several widely used apps that do much more than RCS does
Because Google are trying to get regulators involved when it doesn’t really affect anyone?
Seems like a bad idea on principle
In my opinion, ALL nessaging apps should be compatible with each other. It should be like email, just different clients on the same protocol. I know it won’t happen anytime soon (if ever in my life), but I’d like that. And we should start somewhere. Maybe here.
SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that’s why it’s important. SMS needs to die.
Honest question, should sms die because it’s being a paid for service or for the insecurity or both or more?
It’ll probably always stay as a fallback, but because it’s an incredibly outdated protocol and lived far past it’s age.
Sms is a 20+y old standard. Could just be sending smoke messages, it would be equally secure and feature rich…
Because apparently you get very annoying workarounds from the incompatibility.
As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.
