It’s the same as with Linux, GIMP, LibreOffice or OnlyOffice. Some people are so used to their routines that they expect everything to work the same and get easily pissed when not.
This isn’t just open-source software; it’s also a collection of servers run by hobbyists.
There is no business here at all. You’re not the product, but you’re also not the customer — because there is no customer. What you’re seeing here is a strictly nonprofit Internet service provided by people who just want to make one.
Which makes Karen behaviour even worse and incomprehensible but most people are humble and don’t care to much about some minor problems and a little learning curve
I was with you until GIMP. If one more person lists it as an alternative to Photoshop I’m gonna lose it. It’s UI is terrible, you have to watch a guide just to get started. Can’t read PSDs in any viable way. I’m sure people use it just fine but to call it an alternative to Photoshop is just plain lying.
Edit: the other thing I dislike about it being suggested as a replacement is that it assumes you work alone. Anyone on a team with people in PS will not be able to even attempt to use GIMP to get work done.
You wretched Photoshop enthusiast. How dare you defile the sacred realm of pixelated beauty with your blasphemous tools of the Adobe empire! You, who bathe in the deceptive allure of layers and filters, know nothing of the humble struggle of a true purist.
While you revel in your so-called “advanced” software, I, a virtuous wielder of MS Paint, have embarked on an arduous journey. Armed only with a pixelated brush and limited color palette, I navigate the treacherous seas of artistry. Each stroke, deliberate and purposeful, carries the weight of my soul, for I am a master of simplicity.
Do you not understand the profound joy that arises from conquering the challenge of transforming mere pixels into a masterpiece? With each painstaking click, I breathe life into my creations, shaping reality with the precision of a pixel whisperer. Your Photoshop may grant you an abundance of tools, but it lacks the purity and authenticity that flows through the veins of my MS Paint.
Gimp, you say? Ah, a mere imitation of the great MS Paint, seeking validation in the realm of Photoshop. It too shall crumble beneath the weight of its pretentious ambitions. For true artistry lies not in the abundance of options, but in the mastery of limitations.
So, my misguided foe, before you spew your haughty words, remember the legacy of MS Paint. It has endured the test of time, witnessed the rise and fall of software giants, and remained steadfast in its simplistic grandeur. While your Photoshop may dazzle the masses with its flashy tricks, it is MS Paint that stands as the guardian of true artistic purity.
You also need a guide to get going in PS, its just a different App but fulfills the same tasks
It fills some of the same tasks.
Which tasks is Photoshop capable of and GIMP is not?
Something I use a ton: smart objects, smart masks, smart filters. Non destructive actions where I can still edit the original and have all previous items applied in a separate file or view in real time.
Those aren’t tasks. those are tools.
A task would be if to give us an example of an “end result” that you can accomplish in PS that you can’t in GIMP.
Not what tools you use to make it. But the content that comes out the other end.
I’m not going to argue that PS has some extra tools that make stuff easier to do. It has the resources to develop them, after all.
But there is no drawing, animation, photo edit, composition or other end product that you can ONLY do with Photoshop. The only people who say that are people who have never used any alternative.
So my point is still valid that GIMP is not an alternative to Photoshop. It would be like saying this screwdriver is an alternative to this toolset. People coming from Photoshop aren’t looking at the singular goal of image manipulation.
OK but thats a workflow problem, that’s not a missing design tool.
Well these tools are in Photoshop and not GIMP. You can’t just hand wave that away as not GIMPs fault.
Photoshop doesn’t have a native G’MIC plugin feature. You can’t wave that away as not Adobes fault!
That’s how stupid you sound.
Different products have different features and different ways to do things. It’s not Gimp’s sole purpose to just clone every feature from Photoshop. It’s not a Photoshop clone, it’s a piece of software in its own right.
Gimp makes great use of the amazing G’Mic filter tool. Adobe doesn’t. That doesn’t make Gimp better than Photoshop.
Different software makes different choices and people choose whichever they want to use and shut the hell up about it.
Well its still not a image manipulation feature missing. It’s a workflow feature. You could also just copy a layer. But in the end, Photoshop has no image manipulation feature that is really missing in GIMP, you can export the same result picture.
Use Krita as an alternative! 💕
The problem with GIMP is not its features, it’s how they were implemented. The software isn’t intuitive like Photoshop.
It’s an alternative image manipulation software. It’s not a great replacement for PS though.
The better alternative to Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign is Affinity. And yeah, while it’s not actually free, you only have to pay once and everything is yours.
Or for quick free edits, Photopea.
Upvote for photopea.com it’s crazy how much functionality it has, love that site.
Hmmm, fuck those people honestly
I’m using wefwef right now, and its all running pretty smoothly. No complaints here
Meanwhile I’ve been messing around with Linux the past week and it got me installing decentralized apps on my android lol.
Well thats true for all software - being free/libre or not. It just takes time to get used to it.
For example, when I get a new phone - I spend the next months complaining over how much better the previous one was, until I dont.
I am a reddit refugee and just down for fun ride on the bleeding edge. I am finding a lot of the same communities here and I am happy that Lemmy is here to fill the void.
My biggest takeaway with open source projects is this:
Theres there’s a HUGE jump from being power user friendly to being user friendly in general. Significantly bigger than the jump from dev/contributor users to power users.
UX is something huge companies spend a lot of time and money on to ensure the layman can use the software well, something open source developers do not have the luxury of caring about from the get go.
Power users do not recognize the inbuilt muscle memory they have acquired over time to get around some of the more nagging aspects of the software and get frustrated with new users for not doing the same, while these new users get frustrated at things not being straightforward, or similar to some other software they’re used to.
IMO this push and pull is what is truly preventing a Linux desktop experience that is truly layman friendly. But when it works, and an open source project can slowly start putting more of their time into UX when the project is more mature, then it truly starts kicking ass.
Look at how far Blender has come since the 3.0 update. A lot of studios are straight up switching to it for a lot of work that was traditionally Max or Maya based. Obviously you still have some of the “old guard” who felt a little alienated with the sweeping changes from 2.7 to 3, but I feel blender is objectively better for most people since then.
TL;DR: OSS always deals with different competing needs for power users vs regular users, but given enough time things get smoothened out
And for some reason, mainstream media seems to discourage people from FOSS projects. Just look at the coverage on Lemmy.
“It’s clearly not ready yet.”
Why? We don’t know. It’s just not.
Sometimes though it’s major issues that turn people away. I’ve always loved the idea of Linux, but I’ve never been able to adopt it fully. I’ve tried multiple times and this current time is no different then before. It’s always some major thing that’s broken that no amount of research/troubleshooting that fixes it. At this current moment, my steam install won’t download games to my secondary disks. No matter what I change. It’s running mostly fine otherwise.
As someone who used Reddit when it was first released, Lemmy is 10x better than Reddit v0.1 and obviously better than current Reddit.
better? there is still so much subreddit not migrating here, saying it is better is just exaggeration
Seemed like this discussion was about the technical capabilities, not the user generated content. Anyway if you compare the beginning of reddit (e.g., the early days after digg’s implosion) to lemmy today, I’d bet lemmy is doing just fine on the content side too. And even leaving that aside, there’s a quality over quantity aspect in the discussions that heavily leans in lemmy’s favor.
It’s not like all those subreddits existed at 0.1 though.
I guess as a user I didn’t see the back-of-house tools for mods and admins, but so far Lemmy is at least competitive. There are risks with server security and threat of being hacked, along with the size of the team.
There are risks with server security and threat of being hacked
[]. I’m a security professional (my day job involves auditing code). I had a look through the Lemmy source (I’m also a Rust developer) and didn’t see anything there that would indicate any security issues. They made good architecture decisions (from a security perspective).NOTES ABOUT LEMMY SECURITY:
User passwords are hashed with bcrypt which isn’t quite as good a choice as argon2 but it’s plenty good enough (waaaaay better than most server side stuff where developers who don’t know any better end up using completely inappropriate algorithms like SHA-256 or worse stuff like MD5). They hard-coded the use of
DEFAULT_COSTwhich I think is a mistake but it’s not a big deal (maybe I’ll open a ticket to get that changed to a configurable parameter after typing this).I have some minor nitpicks with the variable naming which can lead to confusion when auditing the code (from a security perspective). For example:
form_with_encrypted_password.password_encrypted = password_hash;A hashed password is not the same thing as an “encrypted password”. An “encrypted password” can be reversed if you have the key used to encrypt it. A hashed password cannot be reversed without spending enormous amounts of computing resources (and possibly thousands of years in the case of bcrypt atDEFAULT_COST). A trivial variable name refactoring could do wonders here (maybe I should submit a PR).From an OWASP common vulnerabilities standpoint Lemmy is protected via the frameworks it was built upon. For example, Lemmy uses Diesel for Object Relational Mapping (ORM, aka “the database framework”) which necessitates the use of its own syntax instead of making raw SQL calls. This makes it so that Lemmy can (in theory) work with many different database back-ends (whatever Diesel supports) but it also completely negates SQL injection attacks.
Lemmy doesn’t allow (executable) JavaScript in posts/comments (via various means not the least of which is passing everything through a Markdown compiler) so cross-site scripting vulnerabilities are taken care of as well as Cross Site Request Forgery (CSRF).
Cookie security is handled via the
jsonwebtokencrate which uses a randomly-generated secret to sign all the fields in the cookie. So if you tried to change something in the cookie Lemmy would detect that and throw it out the whole cookie (you’d have to re-login after messing with it). This takes care of the most common session/authentication management vulnerabilities and plays a role in protecting against CSRF as well.Lemmy’s code also validates every single API request very robustly. It not only verifies that any given incoming request is in the absolute correct format it also validates the timestamp in the user’s cookie (it’s a JWT thing).
Finally, Lemmy is built using a programming language that was engineered from the ground up to be secure (well, free from bugs related to memory management, race conditions, and unchecked bounds): Rust. The likelihood that there’s a memory-related vulnerability in the code is exceptionally low and Lemmy has tests built into its own code that validate most functions (clone the repo and run
cargo testto verify). It even has a built-in test to validate that tampered cookies/credentials will fail to authenticate (which is fantastic–good job devs!).REFERENCES:
- Use of
DEFAULT_COST: https://github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/blob/050216eed97380c8c1682ba065cf5e62f0961934/crates/db_schema/src/impls/local_user.rs#L18C20-L18C32 - How actix-web stores cookies: https://docs.rs/actix-web/latest/actix_web/cookie/struct.Cookie.html
jsonwebtokenEncodingKey: https://docs.rs/jsonwebtoken/8.3.0/jsonwebtoken/struct.EncodingKey.html
I have nothing to add, just wanted to give a kudos on the epic comment.
It not only verifies that any given incoming request is in the absolute correct format it also validates the timestamp in the user’s cookie (it’s a JWT thing).
This is false.
Lemmy’s JWTs are forever tokens that do not expire. They do not have any expiration time. Here is the line of code where they disable JWT expiration verification.
Lemmy’s JWTs are sent via a cookie and via a URL parameter. Pop open your browser console and look at it.
There is no way to revoke individual sessions other than changing your password.
If you are using a JWT cookie validation does not matter, you need to have robust JWT validation. Meaning JWTs should have short expiration times (~1hr), should be refreshed regularly, and should be sent in the header.
When I said, “it validates the timestamp” I wasn’t talking about the JWT
expclaim (which you’re correct in pointing out that Lemmy doesn’t use). I was talking about how JWT works: The signature is generated from the concatenation of the content of the message which includes theiat(Issued-at) timestamp. The fact that the timestamp is never updated after the user logs in is neither here nor there… You can’t modify the JWT message (including theiattimestamp) in Lemmy’s cookie without having it fail validation. So what I said is true.The JWTs don’t have an expiration time but the cookie does… It’s set to one year which I believe is the default for
actix-web. I’m surprised that’s not configurable.You actually can invalidate a user’s session by forcibly setting their
validator_timein the database to some date before their last password reset but that’s not really ideal. Lemmy is still new so I can’t really hold it against the devs for not adding a GUI feature to forcibly invalidate a user’s sessions (e.g. in the event their cookie was stolen).I also don’t like this statement of yours:
If you are using a JWT cookie validation does not matter, you need to have robust JWT validation. Meaning JWTs should have short expiration times (~1hr), should be refreshed regularly, and should be sent in the header.
Cookie validation does matter. It matters a lot! Real-world example: You’re using middleware (or an application firewall, load balancer, or similar) that inserts extra stuff into the cookie that has nothing at all to do with your JWT payload. Stuff like that may require that your application verify (or completely ignore) all sorts of things outside of the JWT that exist within the cookie.
Also, using a short expiration time in an app like Lemmy doesn’t make sense; it would be super user-unfriendly. The user would be asked to re-login basically every time they tried to visit a Lemmy instance if they hadn’t used it in <some time shorter than an hour like you suggested>. Remember: This isn’t for message passing it’s for end user session tracking. It’s an entirely different use case than your typical JWT stuff where one service is talking with another.
In this case Lemmy can definitely do better:
- Give end users the ability to invalidate all logged in sessions without forcing a password reset.
- Make the cookie expiration time configurable.
When using JWT inside of a cookie (which was not what JWT was meant for if we’re being honest) there’s really no point to using the
expclaim since the cookie itself has its own expiration time. So I agree with the Lemmy dev’s decision here; it’d just be pointless redundant data being sent with every single request.Now let me rant about a JWT pet peeve of mine: It should not require Base64 encoding! OMFG talk about pointless wastes of resources! There’s only one reason why JWT was defined to require Base64 encoding: So it could be passed through the
Authorizationheader in an HTTP request (because JSON allows characters that HTTP headers do not). Yet JWT’s use case goes far beyond being used in HTTP headers. For example, if you’re passing JWTs over a WebSocket why the fuck would you bother with Base64 encoding? It’s just a pointless extra step (and adds unnecessary bytes)! Anyway…
- Use of
Yeah, its human nature. Things get better and people come around eventually. Kde plasma is way more continuous from windows 10 then windows 11 is anyway.
That’s because Microsoft stole so much from KDE ^^
Oh really? I was unaware lol.
Yes, the KDE twitter account even mocked Microsoft’s for some of their latest ‘innovations’.
Well, ultimately, I’m glad that something open source is wagging the dogs tail, I assumed it was the other way around.
Yes and no, it’s mean that the creativity and innovation of people at KDE is taken without credit. But on the other hand it shows that their features are really great…
BTW they not only copied ideas but also KDE Plasma’s slogan “Simple by default, powerful when needed.”
Yeah, I was reading about that. It’s a shame about the credit, but hey, what do we expect.
This is why I have 4 different apps to surf Lemmy. When one app is acting up I just switch to another. For example I was just barely scrolling in Jerboa but getting a bunch of network errors so I switched to Connect which is where I’m posting this comment. I’m totally down with being patient with Lemmy for the time being. Anything to get away from R*****
I’m doing the same thing. I have no allegiance like I did with RiF. If one isn’t working, I’ll just move. Give them some time to work out the kinks.
Hey, some of us like kinks.
Kinks mean the process is working.
No kink shaming!!
It’s not just that: it is made worse by the fact that, being “free”, resources are limited. For example, Lemmy.world has been experiencing several hiccups and it’s bloody slow at the moment. I get it, it runs on small servers. But the QoS is bad nevertheless; how can you expect the average Joe coming from Reddit to stay here?
Thing is, and this might be pretty rude to say, but I don’t think I want the average Joe with an attention span of a fruit fly that can’t handle pressing the log in button three times without having a little meltdown on to be the driving force behind content and discourse here.
The average Joe coming from Reddit is what made Reddit the circle jerky, “HOLD MY HAT I’M GOING IN/YOU MUST BE FUN AT PARTIES/AMERICA BAD” dip shit fest that it has been for a long time.
I’m OK with these things being not perfect or super fast or not exact copies of Reddit if it blows away some of the chaff.
The thing is if they want people to migrate they should do something about it
The problem is it takes time and money to do that, which you can’t really get without some kind of structure. I’ve been wondering what a tech cooperative might look like lately. All the weight of a company like reddit, but owned by the users
Okay but there is no profit incentive to increase migration so either you do or you don’t
There is no one here trying to suck your ass to get ad revenue
