• adderaline@beehaw.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      29
      ·
      1 year ago

      this shit gets me angry. both parties suck, biden sucks, yeah yeah yeah. he isn’t in support of actively ripping rights away from millions of people, and he isn’t on board with genociding trans people. i swear, you have either be super out of touch with the people actively under threat by republicans or putting your principles over the lives of actual people to even begin equating the two parties. work on utopian political projects every other day of the year, build movements to affect broader social change, but i swear if you end up not voting blue during one of the most precarious moments of this shithole’s democracy what comes next is worse for all of us.

      and to be clear, biden sucks and i hate him. but genuinely i don’t want to get genocided, and the blue guy is a lot less likely to try that shit on me or the people i love.

        • FIash Mob #5678@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          No, Hillary is why Trump won.

          Just on my tiny street in America, three families lost their homes to Obama’s foreclosure crisis. Multiply that by every street in this country and you have a lot of people who won’t see the appeal of Hillary being a continuation of Obama’s policies.

      • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        I’m voting socialist (probably Green, but good chance something like PSL or Socialist Alternative).

        What comes next if someone from one of the uni-party brands is elected is on you, liberal.

        • adderaline@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          1 year ago

          yeah, such a liberal. haha. i’m a queer anarchist. if i thought there was a chance in fucking hell a socialist would get into office i’d take it. i just don’t put ideological purity over human lives. electoral politics is fucked, but your cute little third party vote is designed to mean fuck all, and we both know that. i’m gonna stomach my distaste for the dickhead and spend an hour of my time doing the most basic form of political engagement possible, to prevent the real deal fascist bigot party from getting more power over us, then i’m going to get back to more productive things. fuck you if you can’t discern the difference between the people legislating people like me out of existence, and the people who aren’t. people will live or die based on the outcome of these elections, its not time to play pretend about socialists in US electoral politics.

          • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            You are helping to ensure a socialist won’t get into office. A self-fulfilling prophecy. Liberal in action; anarchist in word. You came out of the gate trying to shame people who actually vote for their principles. That’s not solidarity with anyone fighting for liberation, sorry.

            • adderaline@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              11
              ·
              1 year ago

              i’m getting angry. this is my attempt to articulate myself more clearly.

              to my mind, its like this: you want to do something that will both not get a socialist elected, because there is not enough public support and third parties have not won in modern history, and marginally increases the likelihood a theocratic fascist gets elected. you can say that Biden is the same, but to me, in the social position i’m living in, he tangibly isn’t, and state and federal democratic policy is the reason i am currently able to get estrogen and antidepressants from my medicare doctor at a queer affirming clinic for free. the other guy doesn’t want me to have any of that stuff, and in fact, his party has been work-shopping laws across republican controlled states to limit access to those exact resources, and has promised to do so on a federal level if elected.

              would i rather not have Biden? yes! am i trying to the best of my ability to contribute to local mutual aid groups and socialist projects in my city? also yes! but fuck, from my perspective voting third party has no fucking way of tangibly improving my actual real life material conditions, and tangibly increases the likelihood of my actual real life material conditions worsening significantly.

              so please, for fucks sake, don’t do the thing that helps the bigots but sticks to your principles, please. i am very frightened, and do not want to die or be left without healthcare. i’m not trying to shame you, i’m telling you that if enough people do the thing that you are planning to do this next election, the most likely outcome is very much not a socialist getting to be the president. please, i will beg on my knees, don’t do a very dumb thing that won’t get you what you want.

              of course, i would greatly prefer if a progressive candidate won, and if they made it out of the primary (which i will vote in), then i will less reluctantly vote for them. but genuinely, i think that what you’re doing is stupid and irresponsible not because i looove licking boot, but because i currently rely on resources which exist only at the whims of democratic politicians. talk about the uni-party whatever all you want, but that is the truth for me and millions of other people nationwide. i may not be alive today if it weren’t for resources conceived of and implemented by democrat politicians and provided to me without cost due to my financial conditions.

              • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                5
                ·
                1 year ago

                so please, for fucks sake, don’t do the thing that helps the bigots but sticks to your principles, please. i am very frightened, and do not want to die or be left without healthcare. i’m not trying to shame you, i’m telling you that if enough people do the thing that you are planning to do this next election, the most likely outcome is very much not a socialist getting to be the president. please, i will beg on my knees, don’t do a very dumb thing that won’t get you what you want.

                Nothing you do at the ballot box will prevent a fascist from being elected to office, either. You’re willing to beg for someone to put a check mark on the paper to help affirm their shitty status quo political system and their shitty fascist political brands. None of that is going to change your material conditions. Have some dignity, and if you really aspire to be an anarchist, study the actual systems you’re so worried about and figure this shit out. If you’re going to beg a leftist for something, make it something that’ll make a difference. I’ll put my life on the line to get you where you need to go to get the treatment you need, and to figure out how to do it outside of the system you’re begging to preserve that’ll happily put you in the ground. Biden ain’t fucking it.

                Yes, you’re getting angry. You’ve been angry since the first comment I replied to. You’re just angry at all the wrong things and people. Cut that shit out.

            • adderaline@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              1 year ago

              you don’t get to decide what i am, and you don’t know what i do. you can blame other people for socialist candidates not being viable in this country all you want, but the reality is, that if we aren’t careful in the next election, people who want me and the people i love dead are gonna get into office, and our electoral system is designed to be winner takes all. unless you really genuinely think a socialist candidate has a solid shot at winning this next election cycle (and we both know they don’t even come close), your principles are gambling with human lives. i don’t have the privilege of having principles right now. i’m trying to survive. and diverting votes to candidates that can’t win makes it more likely the next guy has the power to follow through on his party’s threats of trans genocide. only one party has that on its ticket. that isn’t “trying to shame” anybody. i think that if you want the future you think you want, voting third party does not make sense, and is not strategically viable. we need to pick our enemies wisely.

              • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                I likely have as much to fear from the rising fascism as you do—I do from what you’ve indicated so far. Yet I am still an anarchist, whereas you are a liberal. You know what happens when you give up your principles, as you just admitted you have? You sell out everyone else and make sure they have even more to fear.

                As for your great saviors the fucking donkey-brand fascists, they literally made an outright transphobe—who fought to put trans women in men’s prisons—their vice president. They aren’t putting their bodies or even their political careers on the line to prevent trans genocide. They aren’t doing fuck all about it, in fact, and have been egging it on for decades themselves except when they need to stand up on the stage and claim there’s a difference between them and the elephant brand. And you’ve fallen for exactly this nonsense to convince you to pick one set of transphobic fascists over the other. It’s working. And you’re the sucker. “Anarchist.” LMFAO.

                Either way I’ll be fighting in the streets as well as standing up for my principles on all fronts, not just the ones where it’s convenient. Vote for your favorite brand of fascists if you like, but don’t try to shame those of us who are actually fighting instead of being reactionaries and blaming leftists and other working-class voters for their predicament as you are.

      • tangentism@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        1 year ago

        and the blue guy is a lot less likely to try that shit on me or the people i love.

        So it’s only “a lot less likely” not a definitive won’t ever?

        • adderaline@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          7
          ·
          1 year ago

          oh for sure. i don’t trust the dude, and his policy (like all capitalists) has tangible impacts on my quality of life. every moment we don’t have universal health care, and specifically universal gender affirming healthcare for one of my specific minority corners, leads to the unnecessary deaths of innocent people. every moment we don’t have housing justice, climate justice, and any number of other progressive policies leaves more people in horrific situations. i just don’t think electoral politics provides a pathway for anything better at the moment, and if it goes to the red team things get much worse for everybody much quicker.

        • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          4
          ·
          1 year ago

          No, but the uni-party that’s in power in the U.S. is quite fascist. That has nothing to do with leftism, and I never implied it does. Apparently you missed in my original comment where I made it clear that Biden isn’t the only fascist being promoted (“either”).

          • Idrunkenlysignedup@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            Oh, I was replying @DesertRose and I only saw your comment immediately before it. I’m not a ‘both sides’ kinda person but they are both quite guilty - Republicans do seem to be more mask-off tho.

            That being said, I don’t disagree with your response to @DesertRose.

            My comment was more tongue-in-cheek and not meant to be taken too seriously, thus the “/s”

            • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Fair enough. It sounded like you were attempting to characterize my comment, and that the “/s” was meant to show that you, yourself, didn’t agree with that characterization. Thanks for clarifying.

              • Idrunkenlysignedup@beehaw.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                1 year ago

                Fwiw I generally don’t think Biden is a Fascist per se. I think he is a corporatist and a neolib which can quickly lead to fascism. We need a different voting system besides first past to post so we can get some of these ghouls out of office.

                “‘If they didn’t vote for a lizard’, said Ford, ‘the wrong lizard might get in.’” - Douglas Adams, Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

                • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Fwiw I generally don’t think Biden is a Fascist per se. I think he is a corporatist and a neolib

                  Those are not mutually exclusive. Biden very much subscribes to fascist politics, and has for his entire political career.

      • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        Plenty of fascist policy in Biden’s career of politics: mass incarceration—including concentration camps—the “War On Drugs”, union busting and strikebreaking, mass surveillance (e.g. the Patriot Act, which he happily takes credit for), militarization of the police, attacks on journalism and whistleblowers, etc.

        Yes, you really should work on getting in the loop.

        • newde@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          13
          ·
          1 year ago

          I mean that’s all terrible indeed. But just wait till you see how terrible actual fascism is. It’s much, much, much worse than the current US’s political climate. Fankly it’s perverse to claim it’s on the same level.

          Biden is not like Assad.

          • StrayCatFrump@beehaw.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            1 year ago

            I can see you’ve never been on the receiving end of the prison-industrial or military-industrial complexes. You should really talk more to people who have been.

            • newde@beehaw.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              9
              ·
              1 year ago

              Well no, I haven’t – because I’m European.

              Listen I’m not trying to downplay the terrible systemic abuse minorities in the US are suffering. But that just isn’t the same as full on fascism.

        • DesertRose@beehaw.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          The war on drugs has been a policy standard since Nixon to put minorities and the leftist youth in prison and has unfortunately has not been recanted but progress is slowing being made to change that.

          The union busting was heartbreaking to hear but it is by no means an indicator of somebody being a fascist. In the US there has been plenty of union busting by capitalists.

          The PATRIOT Act is a very unfortunate product of fear that nearly everyone gave liberty for some sense of security. Most people in the US were frightened by the 9/11 attacks, and there were few people at the time that saw that it would be a huge mistake to give the government such vast surveillance powers. Hindsight is very strong now with this.

          Militarization of the police has more to do with a state by state, and department by department thing. The federal government has very little to do with local policing. There’s several Supreme Court cases basically saying so. Probably not the greatest idea as I would like a little more federal protection from and oversight of local police forces.

          The only one I’m not familiar with is the whistleblowers. The only attacks on the press I know of are him calling out far right outlets that publish false and misleading information. Certainly not the president who claimed fake news about everything.

          I am not super supportive of the Democratic Party, it has its issues but it is far from fascism. I think you are confusing that with authoritarianism. The Republican Party is the one that endorses candidates that want people like me to be dead and that is a pretty big motivator to vote for the Dems to prevent that from happening to me or others.