• PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    131·
    6 months ago

    I had to re-read this several times to parse it.

    Do you think most of us here advocating for voting for Biden wouldn’t be ecstatic if we got Biden and the removal of aid from Israel?

    Like, don’t threaten us with a good time. The number of Israel apologists on the Fediverse is very small.

    • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
      84·
      6 months ago

      I think this is the new shill strategy to just introduce nonsense into the conversation to pollute and confuse. Maybe I am wrong and this person just had some kind of mental break, but I talked to them at some length and they seem absolutely committed to the idea that there are lots of Israel-supporters on Lemmy. Like I love Israel, but I also like Biden, and oh no what will I do if someone ever made me choose between them.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
      64·
      6 months ago

      The number of Israel apologists on the Fediverse is very small.

      You should check my comment history to see how many people cannot give an answer.

      • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
        7·
        6 months ago

        Are you sure they’re understanding the question you’re asking? Because I’m seeing a lot of confusion in the replies to your comments.

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
          1·
          6 months ago

          In this hypothetical situation you only get to choose one.

          1. Sending weapons to Israel.
          2. Joe Biden wins the 2024 election.

          Refusing to answer, coming up with a third option or saying the question is stupid defaults to option 1. Weapons are shipped to Israel and Biden loses the 2024 election.

          Seems like I’ve explained it pretty well.

          • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
            3·
            6 months ago

            People would probably parse it better if you put the two options as

            "1. Joe Biden sends weapons to Israel

            1. Joe Biden wins the 2024 election

            Choose one."

            That brings the contrast you’re trying to communicate more clearly, I think, connecting the loss of the election with the continuation of option 1.

            Whereas phrased as it is now, many are interpreting it as “I know you want both of these things, but you can only pick one”.

            • Patapon Enjoyer@lemmy.world
              1·
              6 months ago

              I love sending weapons to Israel, if only Joe Biden would also send weapons to Israel this choice would be so much easier!

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
              15·
              6 months ago

              many are interpreting it as “I know you want both of these things, but you can only pick one”.

              … Then they’re interpreting it correctly.

              • PugJesus@lemmy.worldEnglish
                41·
                6 months ago

                Most of the people you’re asking don’t want both. At least not the people you’re asking here on the Fediverse.

  • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
    91·
    6 months ago

    I’m legit confused

    The grey guy on the left is all the shills on Lemmy pretending that not voting for Biden is helping the Palestinians, and saying they care so much about Gaza that they don’t want to vote for Biden

    And the guy on the right is pointing out that not voting for Biden will make things ten times worse for the Palestinians (as it will for many other people the world over)

    Right?

    Based on who OP is, I don’t think that’s what they meant, but that is for real the only semicoherent interpretation of this meme I can come up with

    • jordanlund@lemmy.world
      4·
      6 months ago

      Not just worse for the Palestinians, but worse here at home as well.

      “I don’t want genocide!”

      Your choices are Biden - who supports Israel despite their bad actions, and Trump - who supports Israels bad actions, wants them to be EVEN WORSE, and wants to enact those same policies in the US.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
      22·
      6 months ago

      If you had to choose between continuing shipments to Israel or Biden winning the 2024 election what would you choose?

      Purely hypothetical question here. Any similarities to reality are purely circumstantial.

      • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
        8·
        6 months ago

        Is this a trick question, or a joke I’m not understanding or something?

        I would choose Biden winning in 2024 and no continuing weapons shipments to Israel.

        As would like 90% of Lemmy as far as I can tell.

        What am I missing?

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
          12·
          6 months ago

          As would like 99% of Lemmy as far as I can tell.

          Ehhh maybe 60%.

          What am I missing?

          Pose this question around here and there. It’s ridiculously funny how many people cannot answer it.

          • over_clox@lemmy.world
            6·
            6 months ago

            Because you’re not asking a proper question.

            It’s like as if you asked whether you’d vote for a banana or an octopus.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
              17·
              6 months ago

              Are you saying you can’t make a decision? (By the way you need to figure out how to reply to comment threads.)

              • over_clox@lemmy.world
                51·
                6 months ago

                I’ve already made my decision. My decision is simple, no more orange juice.

                And I respond however I feel like. If the mods disagree, they’ll let me know.

          • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
            4·
            6 months ago

            As would like 99% of Lemmy as far as I can tell.

            Ehhh maybe 60%.

            I edited it down to 90%. I think there’s about 10% who misunderstand Biden’s domestic policies enough that they think he’s been destructive to unions or something, and so they feel reluctant to say they want him to win even against a clear catastrophe.

            Do you honestly think there are a bunch of people (40% or 4% or 0.4%) on Lemmy who like weapons shipments to Israel? What are you basing this on? I’ve seen one person on Mastodon who seemed like they’d bought into a lot of the propaganda that discredits news about what’s happening to the Palestinians, and honestly believed the IDF was fighting a normal lawful war against armed opponents. That one person represents probably about 0.1% or less of the accounts I’ve interacted with; I have not seen any other person who I think would be in favor of aid to Israel.

            But that is my experience; maybe I am missing something.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
              12·
              6 months ago

              Check my comment history where I’ve asked this question. You’ll see several examples of people:

              1. Dipping out and never answering.
              2. Making up a third choice.
              3. Telling me that real life doesn’t have such binary choices.

              Honestly I think because it’s just a sort of disorienting question. Ask “Do you want aid to Israel?” and I think you’ll see more of a unanimous consensus than you could achieve on almost any other issue.

              Fair enough that may be true. I’ll keep toying with the language and see if it makes a noticeable difference.

              • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
                5·
                6 months ago

                I mean, it is a counterfactual question in a way that makes people want to take a step back from it instead of just buying into the premise and giving a straight answer. The likely outcomes are Biden + aid for Israel, or Trump + aid for Israel, so separating Biden from aid to Israel sort of comes across like a non sequitur.

              • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
                31·
                6 months ago

                I’ll keep toying with the language and see if it makes a noticeable difference.

                Why not just ask, “Do you support aid to Israel?” What is the point of constructing this counterfactual and confusing choice? It’s not a language issue, it’s a “why is that the question you’re asking” issue.

                It’s like, do you want Biden but with the support for Israel taken out of the equation? You’re gonna get a whole lot of people who keep slamming the “yes” button until it breaks if you ask that. Why do you think that would be a difficult question or a gotcha or something?

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
                  22·
                  6 months ago

                  It’s establishing a priority. Their answer demonstrates if sending weapons to Israel is more important to them than Biden winning the 2024 election.

                  Some people cannot answer this question. Prioritizing Israel opens them up to the same accusations of supporting Trump they’ve thrown at others. Prioritizing Biden winning means they’d have to vote for someone who isn’t doing what they want. Either way it casts doubt on their perceived self image.

  • over_clox@lemmy.world
    61·
    6 months ago

    I think you borked your own meme there homie. Second panel, I think you meant to say Ukraine, not Biden.

    • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
      15·
      6 months ago

      Are you unable to make a choice between shipping weapons to Israel or Biden winning the 2024 election?

        • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
          12·
          6 months ago

          Hypothetically if you had to choose between shipping weapons to Israel or Biden winning the 2024 election which would you choose?

          Purely hypothetical here.

            • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
              23·
              6 months ago

              By refusing one of the options you have chosen to keep shipping weapons to Israel and Biden loses the 2024 election in this purely hypothetical situation.

              Thanks for playing.

              • over_clox@lemmy.world
                21·
                6 months ago

                Purely hypothetically speaking, I said yes.

                It’s 2024, you should know by now that means an inclusive or, where I agreed to both things.

                Whether that’s my real opinion or not, does not matter. What does matter though is that you accused me of refusing an option, when I literally said yes to both options.

                Thanks for playing your own game on yourself.

                • go_go_gadget@lemmy.worldOP
                  11·
                  6 months ago

                  “Yes” isn’t “on the ballot” so to speak. In this hypothetical situation you only get to choose one.

                  1. Sending weapons to Israel.
                  2. Joe Biden wins the 2024 election.

                  Refusing to answer, coming up with a third option or saying the question is stupid defaults to option 1. Weapons are shipped to Israel and Biden loses the 2024 election.

                  Now that I’ve expanded my explanation of the rules would you like to change your answer?