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Wow, he’s the guy in the Matt Bors comic:
I had an argument with my neighbor a few months ago. He was dead serious that it’s the Democrats’ fault for making young men Nazis. His arguments were basically exactly what this comic is saying. If you tell someone that hating minorities is wrong, that just makes them hate even harder.
This is actually a very interesting psychological phenomenon. I’m no psychologist, but stretching what I learned from “how to win friends and influence people” to the extreme, directly opposing someone’s viewpoint generally forces them to defend it. By defending it, they rationalize the reasons why they adhere to the idea, and thus end up convincing themselves of their belief.
Your opposition literally only serves to force them to rationalize their belief, and deepen their belief in that thing.
It’s fascinating, but stupid. In my experience, the most intelligent people I’ve ever spoken to will always take opposition seriously, even if with a grain of salt. When struck with an opposing viewpoint, they usually inquire about it, asking the speaker to justify their position so they can understand why they came to this conclusion. The mildly intelligent will then use that justification to tear down the person’s belief in that system. The highly intelligent will then ask questions that cause the speaker to question their own beliefs.
But doing nothing more than asking specific and pointed questions about someone’s beliefs, I have seen very intelligent and clever people, get others to convince themselves that they’re wrong in what they believe.
Long story short, your neighbor isn’t wrong, but they’re also not exactly correct. The character of a person, IMO, is not in what they believe in, but how they react to adversity. Whether that adversity is political, intellectual, physical, or emotional; how you deal with difficulty is the content of your character.
If making people of color, LGBTQIA+ people, and women, equal, by granting them the same rights and freedoms as everyone else (including bodily autonomy, and the ability to live, vote, and marry who they wish), causes you to start to lean towards fascism, what do you think that says about your character?
If you tell someone that X is wrong, that just makes them X harder.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reactance_(psychology)
The use of more concrete, low-controlling language, and the restoration of freedom through the inclusion of a choice-emphasizing postscript, may offer the best solution to reducing ambiguity and reactance
This concept has a name. Cool, thanks, TIL.
Could you provide an example?
There’s lots. A pretty easy example:
Person 1: I like my truck Person 2: I prefer my EV, trucks consume too much fuel.
P1: trucks have to consume so much fuel because that’s what makes them powerful P2: but most people don’t need that much power, trucks are unnecessary.
P1 (feeling attacked, goes into a defensive mentality): I need a truck and lots of other people do too. (Continued rationalizations of why trucks are necessary) P2 (unmoved in their opinion): I still don’t think they’re necessary for the average person.
P1: (further rationalizations as to the everyday benefits of a truck) P2 (still unmoved in their opinion)
P1 successfully convinced themselves of the benefits of owning a truck.
This is will known to marketing too. Most vehicle advertising is not to get you to buy a (insert vehicle here), but instead, get those with (insert vehicle here) to be so proud of how great their car is, that they convince you to buy (insert vehicle here).
Oh I meant of your alternative suggestion. I definitely know that exchange lol
There’s lot of these chuds on reddit nowadays
You should have told them they shouldn’t support preaching abstinence then. As if they think that logic traverses throughout situations as such, it means they are trying to teach preteens to have sex
You’re not understanding it vor even trying to take it serious. No wonder voters are running ax from you.
If you constantly tell someone they are at fault for something because they are of a certain race, if you constantly deny them any of their achievements and say is because of privilege, if you constantly chastize them, don’t take them serious and ridicule them when they talk about their problems, they aren’t going to feel represented by and vote for you.
Voting for Trump isn’t a rational decision, it’s a emotional one.
You need to Figuren out where you went wrong so the elections became emotional instead oft rational.
Remind me who they were running as VP again? Was it another cishet white guy? Also maybe you should be the one trying to understand privilege instead of projecting your own insecurities onto the word. Cool flags though bro.
-signed, Another cishet white guy
please, I am a green-liberal.
But sure, go on and bitch around, being all cocky and passive aggressive about the problem instead of trying to fix it.
I mean, just look at it: You’re framing it in a way that a white cishet guy running for (vice-)president is a problem.
You are making fun of a person advocating for the troubles of young white guys. When in literally the sentence before it you were framing a white vice president as a bad thing. And then you’re wondering why they aren’t voting for you.
It is on the nose. Especially since I already typed it out for you in my comment.
Tim Miller of the Bullwark was just so pissed off by the audacity of “White Guys for Harris”.
When asked why, he would mumble something about White guys being for anything is bad and then he would hear how ridiculous that sounds and change the subject. I saw him do it a couple of times.
How do you reach out to people are who are addicted to faux-american outrage porn with a side helping of persecution fetish?
preferably you’d not let it get this far.
Or you can just cry around and watch the next batch of savable (saveable?) boys become radicalized.
If you constantly tell someone they are at fault for something because they are of a certain race, if you constantly deny them any of their achievements and say is because of privilege
I see Trump voters and people who want an excuse for their behavior saying this has happened. I’ve not actually seen it happening beyond the odd anecdotal outlier. I’ve seen people choose to interpret things like white privilege and systemic racism as if that’s what’s being said, but it always seems very clear to me that it’s not what is being said, it’s how they react to folks suggesting they be more mindful of how they interact with others or less dismissive of the ongoing impacts of historical injustices.
Signed, a white guy, who doesn’t deny all the awful things perpetrated by other white guys in the US, nor feel personally responsible for those awful things, nor feel blamed for those awful things, despite also having struggles, no money in the bank, and plenty of my own personal challenges.
It’s hard for me to have a lot of sympathy for the folks willing to fuck shit up for all of us (including themselves) because they aren’t willing to stop and actually consider what is being said instead of what they think is being said, or because being mindful of how they interact with the people around them is somehow just too much courtesy to ask for.
And psst - fixing a lot of those things would help white folks too!
Some people are just that daft. They change or adopt an entire worldview simply because of one pet peeve they have.
Sure. People that get bullied fight back, and of there’s only one other team, and they’re naive, that’s where they’ll go.
Continuing the bullying doesn’t help.
The guy in the comic is not being bullied though, that’s the whole point of the comic.
Can you point out the bully in the comic you replied to? Or in OP?
No, it’s fairly reasonably placed. I just dislike it in general.
Replace “trump people” with “white people”, and you’re getting closer to how people on the right feel.
As a white person, I’d like to ask that you don’t lump me in with them in any way, shape, or form.
Thanks!
I grew up in the Seattle area. It was not until I traveled to the East Coast and South that I saw how fucked up people were. Other side of the tracks and blacks not welcome was all real.
Sounds like you ended up in the Bible belt.
Ya know, I think a lot of people miss the point on this. There are some real biggots that hate trans and yadda yadda, but the majority of joe everyman voter is really saying “im struggling to pay my bills and all you care about is peoples genders, and people who arent even american”. Is it true? No. But politics for most people is about feeling and emotion. There is no logic talk that will change that. You have to meet simple people at their level; you cant force them to reach your level and understand all the nuance. They are not capable.
Its imperitive that the left stop falling back on this rhetoric, over the economic issues that the majority of voters care about. And dont say “well this policy and that policy and…” They dont understand any of that. They need to hear that they come first.
“I put a fascist in power because mcdonals tripled the price on a quarter pounder combo”
-Typical 3x trump voter-
The thing is, the left ain’t doing shit for trans people. Kamala never said she’d do shit for our rights.
Conservatives are the ones who make this about trans people. I transitioned more than ten years ago - no one gave a rats ass in 2014.
I just disagree with most of this. We should never stop talking about the social issues. A lot of really outspoken Trump etc folks are out to distort and transform our country in oppressive ways, with no regard to economics. We must fight that.
This is 100% true and people here won’t want to hear it.
We lost and we lost BAD. I want to be reasonable and learn WHY we lost.
Just sitting here screaming how everyone is racists and sexist, is juvenile and will cause us to learn NOTHING.
However fucked up a vote for Trump was, it’s more damming that people chose HIM over our candidate.
Trump GAINED black and Hispanic voters, so just screaming racism ain’t it.
Fairly or unfairly, the Democrats are burdened with the baggage that they care more about identity politics and policing language than actually fixing anything. That’s what I’ve learned.
We’ve got a big echo chamber here, and most of the shit we discuss here doesn’t resonate with the majority of people.
We’re more concerned about people saying “unhoused” than actual homelessness and how to solve it.
I don’t believe it’s your first time tim
Might be his first time voting
More likely the “president, congress, and senate” that’s doing the heavy lifting here IMO. If I had to put money on it I’d probably guess it was usually like straight R and then like he’d vote for Joe Manchin and be like “see I voted for both Republicans and Democrats”
You never know. There is recordings of Trump saying the economy does better under Democrats when he was a Democrat. Musk also was telling people to fuck off if they didn’t support the lgbtq community not long ago.
I googled it so you don’t have to.
The 3 or 4 times I’ve heard someone use that word here on Lemmy to describe what they don’t like, they’ve been pretty up front that it’s about identity politics. IE they hate that trans people want to identify as a gender other than the one they were born with.
So this is making it look like they’re just putting “identity” into a bigger word and making it sound fancier.
That definition appears inconsistent with how that word was used in the tweet. What is the leftist version?
Trying to find ideological consistency in this one might be a fool’s errand, I’m sorry to say.
Pim tool is not what you would call a “smart” or “consistent” person… I’m fact, person may not even be the best descriptor for them.
Feral baldling might be more appropriate.
It’s identity politics, but smart-sounding!
If add more letters, big brain sound!
There isn’t one.
Oop is infamously a moron on the political side of the internet. Whenever leftist content creators want cheap and easy dunks he’s the go to because he’s big enough to be fair game and dumb enough that it takes like no effort without being so big his fans will cause you problems.
Tim Pool got his start being a shill against the Occupy Wall Street protestors in 2010 and 2011, like many of the fascists we all know and hate, such as Stephen Crowder. The idea that he has voted democrat until now is such a joke it is practically an anti-joke.
He never actually says he voted Democrat before. Just that this is his first time voting republican. So he either didn’t vote or voted libertarian.
He kinda implied it though.
Of course he did.
Aka I got paid by a foreign actor under the table to push my audience further to the right.
Hey that’s newsdude Cody Johnston!
Always upvoty the Cody.
I hear AG1 is where he gets all his news powers
As long as it helps him to fight off the boar menace. Damn teleporting hogs.
And then proceeds to chug an entire bottle on the air for our entertainment.
It’s the explicit ‘He didn’t have to do that, ever, but y’all loved it’ that keeps us coming back for some warmbo news
Cody is rad. First encountered him and Katy Stoll / Some More News on the podcasts Behind the Bastards and Worst Year Ever.
I remember his rough early work on Cracked. Pleased to see the lad made good.
I bet Warmbo made him post on Twitter.
I bet dim tool the Russian fool says that every four years
There’s been a real shift in Silicon Valley, from Squish Neoliberal International Markets And Raytheon Branded Pride Flags to Based Trad Horny Catholic Gymrat Nationalism.
A lot of it follows the Zuck/Bezos/Musk arc. Tim Poole is getting dragged along on the undertow.
But the Russia shit is mostly because Russia has followed along with American Conservativism while Ukraine has been painted as Neoliberal. So much of this isn’t Trump following Putin but Putin following the Kochs and the Mellons and Murdochs.
Guys (et al), please don’t make fun of the dim fool’s name. It’s rude and frankly immature.
Edited: spelling
FYI, it’s “et al”
Thanks!
Tim Poole is so inconsistent with his own opinions that he regularly contradicts himself within the same thought. It’s incredibly cringe inducing and wildly frustrating to even hate listen to his show. He also does some really blaringly racist cherry picking for topics and constantly pushes the “crime is out of control” narrative with only anecdotal evidence. I utterly hate his show and wish he would actually face some repercussions for his Russian payoff (he won’t but I wish he would).
Theres more than one clip (I think by Some More News) of him stopping mid-sentence while reading as he realizes the article completely debunks the point he’s trying to make and passing it off like it still made his point.
That’s exactly it, and this tweet image was none other than Cody Showdy himself.
Dude has no idea what he’s saying and is just throwing labels around to sound smart. Hilariously, he might be outing himself as a racist too.
Fuck him don’t bring his bullshit here
But definitely bring mista cody here
What’s under the hat, Tim?
Take it off, you bald, insecure bitch. I did.
As soon as I lose my hair I’ll embrace the shit out of it.
Once I started noticing my hair was thinning, I was like, “fuck it. I’ll just shave it all off.” I did that for a while, but it appears I’m still able to grow out a decent Jew fro.
Current level: Art Garfunkel.
I was like Albert Einstein x 2 in high school, so I’m curious to see how far this will go.
Hello greyness, my old friend… 🎶
Get off my lawn again… 🎶
Started going grey in my late 20s. Now I’m 47.
Thank you for the over-share. I appreciate your outlook on the matter, and may wind up in Einstein territory yet. I’m on track to have a delightful Hippocratic Wreath in about 10-15 years, and I’m just gonna lean into it. Maybe I’ll get into some fun Trek cosplay, open a bar in Philly, or even just wander around while warning people about the classic blunders in life. Yeah, I could Bic-it, but when you can resemble one of the greats you just gotta roll with it.
It’s the best move. I started losing my hair at nineteen and when my (very immature) crush eventually saw me without a hat on, she started cracking up and said I had old man hair. That shit disappeared from my head real quick. Didn’t waste much more time with her either.
So far I’m lucky, late 30s with no sign of alopecia. However if my father is any indication, I should start losing them around mid 50s, so bald I will go at this point.
What’s really sad is that I see plenty of this among my community. They get mad at stuff that they’re willing to flip over other side just to get back at them or something.
I don’t like the woke movement either, but I like the “Race war now!” movement far, FAR, FAR LESS…
