Americans’ junk-filled garages are hurting EV adoption, study says
Americans’ junk-filled garages are hurting EV adoption, study says
arstechnica.com
Americans’ junk-filled garages are hurting EV adoption, study says
Comments
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How about talking to the landlords who refuse to install EV chargers? Or maybe talk to manufacturers who won't sell a basic EV that isn't overpriced?
This is just "Am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong!" again.
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Why lower your EV price when you can just block foreign competition?
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Ah, the Detroit approach
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Or maybe talk to manufacturers who won’t sell a basic EV that isn’t overpriced?
This is huge. Keep in mind, every additional bullshit "feature" in your car will end up costing you more than it costs the business.
This is why we've been conditioned to accept so much superfluous bullshit as possible.
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What do landlords have to do with it? Can you not power the charger off 110V or 220V? Do you need a higher amp circuit cut in, larger than 30A? (American question obviously.)
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Some apartment buildings are nowhere near where tenets park vehicles. Running extention cables would be a mess and dangerous
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fast charging requires a larger service connection than a wall outlet. you can slow charge from a normal wall outlet, but it will take ages to fully charge a modest battery.
generally people have it installed by an electrician, running a new conduit from the circuit breaker.
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I rent a house. Our lease is explicit about no battery charging in the garage, including EVs. Yet they seemingly have no problem with my welder or RC cars...
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Stupid article. You don't need 240 V , you can charge with a regular wall plug. For a lot of usage patterns this is more than enough.
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You can make it work on 120V, it just uses ~20-30% more energy due to the overhead of running all the vehicle systems for so much longer while charging.
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I think that number is a bit off. Yes, there is overhead when charging a car to run its battery management system, heat losses in the wiring, etc. But it's not 20-30% of the ~kilowatt of power you'd run through level 1. A quick search says that 20% loss is at the higher end for level 1 (probably 15% on the lower end) but even level 2 has about a 10% loss.
The bigger issue is that level 1 just doesn't have nearly as much power as level 2. Most cars charge at level 1 at 8-16 amps. Most level 2 setups charge at a few times that, plus the voltage is doubled so the total power ends up being about 10x as much. But that's not to say everyone needs that power either. Honestly, for the average driver it's quite easy to make level 1 work.
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What about transit? Why do Americans always have to drive. We need real alternatives to cars.
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The suburban sprawl makes building transit a lot harder but to fix that we need to increase density but then it’s hard to increase density when you need space for cars because you have no usable transit
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Most suburbs have plenty of density to support transit as proved in other countries that provide good transit to their areas of similar density. However most suburbs have such bad transit you can't use it for anything and to people start believing the idea that it is impossible to get them good transit and so they won't agree to get it.
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Infrastructure alone to Bungalow jungle is never cost-effective: as Detroit learned, it never pays for itself with property tax.
I say we jack the property tax on low-dense residential to properly reflect a 20-year amortization and all the operating expenses of the infrastructure used, all the way back to City Hall, so that it does pay for itself (and the farther out, the more expensive to fix, the more expensive the tax).
At the same time, the city will
- wreck a park (wait for it)
- put up 40 storeys of mixed use
- offer to buy the shitty bungalows around the building, with an option to buy into ready condo space
- same for businesses, because #mixed-use
- use adjacent bungalow space for central square. Start with transit station underneath
- build 7 more towers
- offer same buy-up to adjacent bungalows
- surround with greenspace and one really ineffective laneway to connect garages under building with roadway out there
- begin offering more incentives for bungalow people to give up their home for agri space and move into mixed-use
- repeat until city is transformed to efficient walkable oases linked by transit
People think they can't do apartments, but I'm sure a spacious 1200sqft place planned with an eye to sight-lines isn't what they're thinking. We love our (smaller) apartment near the mixed-use block that sprung up , and everything we need is within that block. From daycares and pet stores to restaurants and coffee-shops and take-out, and gyms (plural) and insurers and a market and a chemist and an insurer and a physio... it's endless, and they're still building out more commercial space.
But you have to build the new space, properly configured with GOOD (rail) transit, before you can get people out of their cars.
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It's really isn't difficult
Our government just won't spend the money to do it
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Chicken and egg situation, Americans drive because that’s how their cities and suburbs are laid out (excluding NYC, for the most part).
They don’t rely on alternatives because they are slow, inconvenient or non-existent; alternatives can’t be built up as the costs can’t be justified based on existing patronage levels.
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transit
"We mean electric cars, you commie! The next time you talk about that thing, you are going out that window."
\s
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I live in a mid-sized Canadian city, with a population of just under 400k with what is considered a pretty good bus-based transit system, with roughly 60 routes. Even way out in the boonies you can catch a bus. You can get from pretty nearly any point A to any point B on the bus.
And yet I and those who can afford to do so generally avoid the bus. Our streets are still filled with cars during rush hour (which, as someone who has 100% WFM for the last 15 years I’m happy to say I’m not contributing to). Reasons?
- If your origin and destination aren’t on the same route, you’re going to need to transfer. Possibly multiple times. And wait for those transfers.
- Buses are sometimes either late, or too full and don’t stop. Which means if you rely on taking the bus to get to work, you had better be up quite early to ensure you get to your destination on time.
- Bus people. Creepy old guys hitting on young (or even old) girls and women. People who haven’t showered in a while sitting next to you. The people who think their bag is too important and needs a seat. We bought my wife a car the week after some racist tried to attack her.
You know what doesn’t have any of those problems? My car. I can crank my music up if I want to. I get to pick who is in my car. I don’t have to get up extra early to make sure I get to my destination on time because the bus might be late, full, or because I have to make multiple transfers (at each point of which the bus could be late or full…).
I’m glad we have the bus system we have for those people who need it. I know we have people in our city who don’t have the privilege of owning a vehicle of their own — and for some people whose needs are simple the bus can likely work just fine. I’m glad we have that system for the people who don’t otherwise have a choice — but for everyone who has that choice, the choice is typically being in their own private vehicle where they can sing loudly, eat and drink whatever they like, control who rides with them, and go wherever they want to — heck, I can even change my mind about my destination mid-drive and go wherever I want to without having to switch cars.
I’ll admit, having taken transit in bigger cities (Toronto, Montreal, Istanbul) being able to take a train (subway, LRT, surface rail, streetcars etc.) can be pretty great. I think bigger cities need this kind of transit — even with its many, many problems it can beat out taking a car to a downtown core. But even when I lived in some of these cities I still had a car. But the size of my current home city just isn’t big enough to accommodate that level of transit. The cost would just be too horrendous.
Can everyone do better? Sure. But I don’t think such improvements are going to significantly encourage more people to take transit over their own vehicles.
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Hamilton? Guessing it because of the racism
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There's many smaller cities than yours in Europe with a tram network. Volchansk in Russia has a tram line with a population of 10k. Canada isn't know for having great public transport... In a city like Hong Kong you don't need a car, it's so convenient.
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Have you seen America? It's huge.
There's also way more to America than the metropolitan cities you've been conditioned to prioritize.
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Yes. I grew up in the Midwest. In rural America. I live in a city now on the west coast… Transit is a great option for metropolitan areas. U.S. cities in general have terrible transit options, big highways ruining core city areas and no thought of pedestrians in many areas. We need to start with fixing that. Slowing down urban corridors, taking away parking, adding better light rail to encourage less use of cars. Yes, in rural areas and outlying areas cars will of course still be needed. It’s a huge country.
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Honestly, it's just so convenient to be able to get in the car and go (unless the destination's parking situation is really bad).
Americans value convenience quite a lot. We even trade our personal data for it.
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The design of US cities has reinforced this.
Nobody actually lives anywhere near the places they need to work and shop so driving is the only option. Because everything's so spread out public transport is terrible because it's not possible to provide a decent service.
You have as a much denser population in Europe than the US by land area, so everything's closer together and it's easier to build public transport infrastructure in that scenario, because every stop serves a greater number of people. Plus there isn't such a great distance between the suburban areas and the urban areas. Personally I can get from suburbia to urban the area with a 1-minute walk. I don't understand why Americans have to be 10 miles away from their cities.
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Couldn't be that most Americans can't afford new cars.
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Because they keep buying shit they don't need and hording it in the garage, while their car sits outside in the driveway exposed to the elements.
Hyperinflation and incoming recession aside, Americans have been using their garages for junk storage for many decades.
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Don't get me wrong, most of them spend money like morons while complaining they need more.
However, electric vehicles are still just too expensive of an investment to justify to the average American.
This could probably be fixed if the leeches maximizing profit off of them made less profit, but why would they do that unless they're forced to?
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People can't afford a new car, let alone an EV, let alone a carport or car hole.
This is just tone deaf poor blaming.
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pretty sure it's the lack of money that's hurting ev adoption.
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There can be multiple factors.
People with garages big enough for a nice car that also have it stuffed with things probally have money too. Right?
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I have a garage that could hold 4 cars if you parked 2 rows of them....
My single income household of 3 is just barely above the national poverty level.
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People with garages big enough for a nice car
What the fuck? I can tell you don't have a garage, because for 99% of them size isn't going to impact the 'niceness' of the car you can have in it.
Challenge: People who lived in major cities understanding that there's more to life than what goes on in them.
Level: Impossible.
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Money and options are hurting my adaption rate
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If you need to top off with 200 - 300 miles of range every night, you commute sucks giant donkey balls.
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I moved in to a house with a garage and my in laws are constantly trying to give us crap to fill it up.
I don’t even know where they’re getting this stuff, they just show up and are like “oh, we’re getting rid of this dresser, we thought you’d like it” or “or, I bought this antique trunk at a yard sale, can you hold on to it”.
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Yeah, my bfs dad is constantly filling his house, garage, and yard with a bunch of crap that he'll never use. It just sits there and gets forgotten and deteriorates. Took us 6 years but we got like 90% of what he was storing out of our house too.
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Too real
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Same here. Luckily our basement flooded and we were like “oh well, guess it’s all ruined and has to be thrown away 🤷”
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Weird. I haven’t had a garage in a most of the places I’ve lived as an adult and I drive electric and charge at home just fine.
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That's irrelevant because as far as I know you don't actually have to have the car in the garage to be able to charge it you can put the charger on the outside if you want.
Also I don't know how it is in America but my garage is literally too small for the car, I can just about get it in there but then I'm stuck because I can't open the door far enough to get out.
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This guy knows how to do it.
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Many Americans have huge garages, some with room to park 2 or even 3 vehicles with plenty of space to walk around them. But even single garages are large enough to park cars.
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We have a one-car garage and two cars. I have a table saw, therefore we have a no-car garage.
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Pretty sure it's the range and charge times. Especially in the Midwest. I need a car that can take me to Florida in under 16 hours. Also I own a EV
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The real problem is having to go to Florida so regularly. I feel for ya.
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Nothing really wrong with florida.
I say this, because I've come across genuine morons who live in Texas and have the nerve to scoff at florida while ignoring their shithole state and the one directly to the east of it.
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My parents have a garage full of junk. It used to drive me crazy. We have strong storms where we live and a tree/branches falling are a real possibility of damaging their cars. Plus hail storms sometimes.
It's mainly my moms stuff. Some of it is worth money but it's not being sold or anything.
If they used the garage as something other than storage it would be one thing. Instead it's full of stuff for no real reason.
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Some of it is worth money but it’s not being sold or anything.
My mother refuses to admit she's a hoarder, and none of her things are really valuable. She's clean, it's not like she lives in filth, but she lives in 4000 square feet (main floor + basement) and has three full wall closets plus a room in the basement all filled with every item of clothing she has ever owned. I can barely fill a small closet with all my clothing. Her closets aren't small, either. They are about 15 feet wide, each. So three 15 feet wide closets absolutely crammed with shit, and each one of them has storage space broken into three sections, about three feet tall each above each closet. Everything is crammed full. None of it is ever pulled out to be used for anything. She has all these things from her family she has kept for "memories" but 1. they mean nothing to me because I hate my extended family and 2. I won't be able to afford to store them and won't have reason to when she's gone.
I don't fucking get it, it's a massive house, and it's just stuffed to the fucking brim with crap crap crap!
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There are lots of factors that lead to people of her generation ending up like this. It’s really common.
One factor for some people, is not wanting to face how wasteful we are. It’s putting off the reality that it’s all landfill. Just one of many reasons. And I think it might be common with people who are not exactly hoarders, but also manage to hold on to so much.
Sure, they could donate it… but the rationalization could spin up again knowing that’s just another cope, because most of it will go from the donation place to the landfill.
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I know lots of people who just run the cable under the door...
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I don't have a driver's license, so I don't have to worry about that! :-)
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Me, who doesn't even have a garage: Yeah... That'e what stops me from getting an EV...
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lol, this totally makes sense to me. It can’t be the only reason. But my lived experience tells me it’s not insignificant.
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No, it's the price.
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If you're work commuting with an EV and charging at home. What's the hit to your electric bill?
Because that's one of a few bottlenecks. $10 every few days for some gas is a lot easier on people than a blanket X hundreds of dollars higher light bill.
Being poor is expensive.
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You're right, being poor is expensive, but that doesn't really apply to charging a vehicle.
The term "being poor is expensive" is generally applied to situations where you don't have the money to pay for something upfront (a quality product, bulk purchases, preventative maintenance, preventative healthcare, down payment on a house) so you have to spend smaller amounts of money repeatedly and/or have a large unavoidable cost as a result (multiple cheap products that wear out, multiple small purchases with a higher per unit price, a blown engine, a root canal, rent), which can cost a lot more over time.
The electric bill is post-paid, not up front. Not being able to set aside the "$10 every few days" to pay the higher bill at the end of the month with money left over is just poor money management.
That being said, the higher purchase cost of electric vehicles preventing poor people from taking advantage of lower operating costs that would more than offset the higher purchase price after some number of years is an example of it being expensive to be poor.
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My MIL has had the original leaf and is now driving a newer Bolt. She said her bill only went up 20-30 bucks a month compared to what she was spending a month on gas.
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I was paying $385 per month in gas for an Astra hatchback, which is not exactly a gas guzzler, though I did live in the mountains at the time.
I replaced it with a Bolt EV and the hit to my electric bill was about $50 with the same commute.
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It ain’t the junk in the garage, it’s the $80k and the spyware
Yup. Find me a car that respects my privacy and won't advertise to me and I'm in.
Edit to add: and no fuucking subscriptions to enable things the car can already do but disabled in software.
How clean is your garage? Do you have one? Just curious.
my ford EV has no subscriptions (other than the usual sirius XM and nav subs that all cars have). There is data collection but you are able to opt out.
Also this is more of an issue with new cars in general, not a reason to choose a new ICE vehicle over a new EV.
As opposed to what your comment implies, the drivetrain (EV or ICE) has nothing to do with cars spying on you. You should not blame the technology itself because shady car companies spying on your internet connected car. Most of them are well known ICE car brands that do the spying (GM, Volkswagen for instance)
Yes, most new ICE cars are Internet connected now, not just EVs.
Blame those greedy corporations, not the technology.
exactly, data collection is an issue with new cars in general. It's not a reason to buy a new ICE car instead of a new EV.
As a matter of fact, ICE cars were connected to the internet way before the first EV was connected to the internet.
What does spyware have to do with EVs?
Well my next car will be an EV so I’m holding on to the older car i have for now until some good option actually comes that’s reasonably priced and not spyware
Apparently people are living double lives and are afraid their secret identity will be uncovered by checks notes corporations who already know more about us because we have a smartphone in our pocket.
with the used EV tax credit there are good options at ~20k.
edit: why downvotes? the used EV market is bigger every year and if the price is under $25k you get a ~$4k credit.
Older bolt EVs all had their batteries replaced in 2021/2022, and can be had for under $20k before any incentives.
You can get electric for only a slightly higher cost than gas, just not the "premium" ones. As for Spyware, that's any modern car. It has nothing to do with being electric.
Bullshit.