Framework unveils a second-generation Framework Laptop 16 with a swappable Nvidia RTX 5070 GPU, an industry first, shipping in November 2025
Introducing the new Framework Laptop 16 with NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 5070
cross-posted from: https://programming.dev/post/36378173
I’d prefer an AMD 9000 series because I refuse to support Nvidia, but the upgradability is still an amazing achievement. I’m glad to see Framework delivering.
It could help if AMD still manufactured discrete mobile GPUs.
Their website still lists RX 7000M & S series, but I don't know of a single *other *laptop brand that currently offers them. There is certainly is no hint of a 9000 series mobile GPU, which is a shame. I probably won't buy another laptop until AMD is back in the mobile GPU game. Not that they're perfect, but they are significantly less evil than NVidia.
Most people don't need them. The gaming and workstation laptop market is smaller than ever. The integrated graphics has been "good enough" for a while now.
Out of curiosity, why do you refuse to support Nvidia? AMD isn't some saint, they're a shitty corporation just like Nvidia. They got lucky when Jim Keller saved their asses with the Ryzen architecture in the mid-2010s. They haven't really innovated a god damn thing since then and it shows.
Edit: I get it, I get it, Nvidia is a much shittier company and I agree. I was pretty drunk last night before bed, please pardon the shots fired
they're a shitty corporation just like Nvidia
Neither of them are anyone's friend, but claiming they're the same level of nasty is a bit of a stretch.
Besides what was mentioned below, it's not about making competitive products but about Nvidia being an absolute asshole since the 2000s and they got even worse ever since the crypto and AI craze started. AMD and Nvidia are both corporations but they are not even playing the same game when it comes to being anti-competitive.
There's a reason why Wikipedia has a controversies section on Nvidia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Controversies
That list is far from exhaustive. There's so much more about Nvidia that you should remember vividly if you were a PC gamer in the 2000s and 2010s with an AMD GPU, like:
Nvidia has been gimping gaming performance and visuals since forever for both AMD GPUs and even their own customers and we haven't even gotten to DLSS and raytracing yet.
I refuse to buy anything Nvidia until they stop abusing their market position at every chance they get.
Not OC but I don't want to deal with Nvidia's proprietary drivers. AMD cards "just work" on Linux
Haven't innovated? 3D chip stacking?
CPU companies generally don't change their micro-architecture, especially when it works.
That's it, every other gaming laptop is finished. Even though I have the older CPU I can get the newest GPUs now. Nobody can claim that right now. No other company is doing this.
The other laptops arent finished yet. Framework is super expensive , even compared to other gaming laptops.
I think its worth it, but thats not the opinion of a lot of casual people.
And had i not gotten one via my job, i would not have gotten a framework 16 because of the price
Well, the idea is that you can upgrade components without replacing everything, so the initial cost is higher but the long term cost is lower.
That said, they took their time. The 1st generation is old now. The Radeon dGPU is probably weaker or on a similar level than the new Ryzen iGPU. There is no Radeon dGPU upgrade path other than "just use the old one". They have a better upgrade cadence with the 13 inch model.
Now if only Framework did that with AMD & Intel GPUs, then we'd all be balling.
Also please make it available in the East
They've had AMD for a few years now. No Intel one, but they do sell empty GPU module shells, so maybe someone could cut down a desktop Intel card to fit in one?
Now if I could only afford a Framework.......
If I could only afford any decent gaming laptop honestly.
It's getting harder and harder to afford high end computers. I have already decided my next new computer will be a mini desktop. They are noticeably cheaper, can be well spec'ed, and powerful with a small foot print.
now if only they sold them in my country...
And still no OLED screen... why Framework, why?
I got one of the latest Framework 13 a couple months ago for work, and while I'm happy about the prospects of future repairability and upgradability down the line, it's not a great laptop given its pricepoint.
The build is subpar, with the screen flexing a ton, the keyboard and trackpad are lacklustre and pretty uncomfortable, but the worst is the screen, it's dim, with poor colour reproduction and 3:2 is frankly not for me. And fractional scaling is a mess with XWayland, while it was much better on my 2019 XPS 13.
I love what Framework are pushing for and actually achieving, but tradeoffs are very much at play. I'm hoping for an OLED screen replacement in the near future though.
I've yet to use an OLED monitor that didn't make text look shitty and I've used $1000+ OLED displays with high ratings.
Don't get me wrong, OLED colors and blacks are gorgeous. I love OLED.
Even my Samsung Pro whatever latest laptop with an OLED display...the text just looks off. Which was disappointing because my Samsung phone text is fine.
LG C2/3/4, also gross looking text.
Alienware OLED $750+ monitor? Text was bad.
I love OLED but I've yet to find one that works for productivity.
Almost all OLED displays use a different pixel layout than traditional LCD displays. And sub pixel font rendering is designed for the standard LCD layout. Depending on your OS you may be able to configure the font rendering to look better on most OLEDs. But some people are just more sensitive to this as a problem.
Aren't phone screens AMOLED? I'm definitely not an expert, but I thought it was a variation of OLED, which would explain why text looks better.
That being said, I also have an OLED Steam Deck and I can read text on it just fine if the scaling is set correctly in the game or just browsing the web normally in desktop mode.
Yep, text is definitely not handled well on most OLED monitors (or TVs) because of their pixel substructure. It's usually been better on Linux for me and I essentially don't notice it anymore, but I also haven't used Windows in years so I can't compare.
Did you turn on PC-Mode with your LGs?
I use an LG nanocell TV as an pc monitor and the fonts didn’t look good until I set the HDMI input type to PC. And ofcourse you need to play around with the font rendering tools like ClearType in Windows.
OLED does not belong on a computer. Also it's a dead end technology.
caresses screen
some day...
Just picked up my first Framework 13. Moves like this are why I'm increasingly trusting of their mission and vision.
Hopefully they stay private, or better yet, change their corporate charter into a cooperative. Never go public.
FFS I was just about to buy myself one and now I'm obviously gonna have to wait until November
Oh, wait, I can just upgrade it. Nbd.
So what's the hivemind consensus fellow lemmings, framework or thinkpad? My brain says lenovo but my heart says
There is no Thinkpad as repairable as the framework and if they are (they're not) the price is out of reach for individuals since the p51 with LPCAMM2 targets enterprise costumers.
Your brain is wrong on this one. Follow your heart
Thinkpads are not what they once were. I finally gave up on them, moved over to a Framework, and haven't regretted it.
Framework is more repairable but Thinkpads simply have superior build quality with less issues.
My experience with Framework is exactly one unit, but I would disagree with this. The Thinkpads I've used all felt more plastic-y and less sturdy than my Framework. The keyboard did feel cheaper until I wore the powdery texture off of the keycaps (took about a week), at which point it felt amazing.
After getting a used thinkpad and being really surprised by the build quality and keyboard that's the route I've decided to stick with over buying new laptops.
I'd say it depends on your needs and budget Framework has a higher build Quality and a bit loser prices but if this isn't a Problem for you, go for it. Great repairability and replacebility is awesome!
that's a good looking computer
So I'm going to be skeptical here. I had an older 9xx MSI laptop that was touted as replaceable and "upgradable" GPU for the next generation at the time.
That ended up as a big ol' whoops, because replacement screwed with thermals and found that you couldn't actually upgrade because of all kinds of reasons and resulted in a class action suit.
Just color me skeptical on these types of things.
Framework has been pretty consistent on upgradability. You can even put the newest MOBOs/CPUs in the oldest laptops since they kept the formfactor identical. They sell such mobos on their website.
GPUs a bit of a different monster since there no such thing as a standard socket, you're bound by the manufacturer spec for pin in/out.
And that was the case with MSI laptop and Nvidia partnership when Nvidia went full Darth Vader and changed the terms of the deal.
I mean more power to them if they can actually deliver actual modules that can be upgraded and if I can actually see a generation or two of this actually working, I'll be on board but once bitten, can't fool me again for the time being.
Since the cooling system is self contained in the module, you shouldn't have that issue.
The new GPU also has the same 100w tdp as the last one
damn son, those lappies aint cheap
yeah, at these prices makes more sense to just buy a new laptop in a couple years... o well.
Still waaay too expensive :(
I'd pay it if they had a few things I'm looking for:
Basically, I want the ThinkPad keyboard on a Framework laptop.
There are people out there that use those nipples wow! I guess everyone has their preference, for me 120hz screen is a must.
My main problem with those prices is not even the value for money (albeit imo there is quite a disparity here), but the financial damage when lost/stolen. For private use, I just don't want to carry any device around that is substantially more expensive than ~1000 EUR.
And the only thing that Framework has to offer me that no one else insise the EU has, is 15+ inches without a num block and with centered touchpad. The market share of laptops with num blocks (and accordingly off-center touchpads) is infuriatingly high and tells me 99.5% of people either have a tiny left hand or do no serious typing on the keyboard.
OK I’m a bit confused. I have a Framework 16” that I bought earlier this year, without the GPU extension bay. I don’t care that much about the expansion bay as without it, the laptop is already huge. I have an eGPU to play on when I need it.
What upgrade options does this announcement offer to me?
I’m dissatisfied with:
They are announcing a new webcam, will it be backwards compatible ?
Otherwise I’m really happy with it, I absolutely love the modular I/O, being able to swap which side the audio jack is is amazing. happy to support this endeavor of repairability
There's new webcam, theres also an "empty" extension thing where you can put 2 nvme SSDs in place of the GPU.
So I went back to the blog post. They are shipping the Framework 13" webcam in this updated 16" version. The part was already available for me to upgrade!
We’re now using the 2nd Gen Webcam that we first introduced last year on Framework Laptop 13.
https://frame.work/blog/introducing-the-new-framework-laptop-16-with-nvidia
The module comes pre-installed on Framework Laptop 13 (Intel Core Ultra Series 1) and the new Ryzen 7040 Series configurations with the 2.8k display. It’s also compatible with all of our existing Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 models [...]
https://frame.work/blog/framework-laptop-13-deep-dive---a-laptop-webcam-with-smartphone-technology
Ordered the webcam. Will update when I upgrade it.
Which part is industry first?
Nvidia is really cagey about what the let vendors do with their gpus, they had one hot swappable concept years ago and it never went anywhere because they basically didn't allow them to do anything with it. So this actually making it I to a product is crazy
Edit: not hot swappable, just swappable, please turn your PC off first lmao
swappable Nvidia RTX 5070 GPU
the title is sensationaliat, as the gpu part has been done before (mxm gpus)
the only industry first off the top of my head is the 240w usb c epr charger for a laptop
Industry first to use this specific part in this specific way
Yeah if the newest GPU fit your laptop! But it never really worked well
Only argument I could make is that this is the first gpu module that has a self contained cooling system. Older mxm cards were just the PCB.
Framework is partially owned by Linus Media Group.
They got their PR game on lock.
lol industry first? Swappable GTX models were already a thing 10+ years ago. Clevo/Sager chimes in…… “bitch, we did it before you”.
Nowhere in the press release they claim to be an industry first on swappable mobile GPU, and the title imply that the "industry first" is to have a swappable RTX5070M, which may be correct, especially depending on your definition of "swappable".
That said, the cooling system is contained in the module. Afaik the mxm modules were just PCBs.
MXM has been around for 20+ years as far as I know.
I have a Sony vaio F series laptop from 2000 and it apparently has an mxm ATi Rage Mobility M1. So I can confirm that at least.
What about SIM slot
Presumably a Wan modern could fit in one of those little USB port things.
Apparently there's some open source designs for a sim card module already. Idk if Framework is planning on making their own though. https://github.com/Zokhoi/framework-cellular-card
for laptops, either get last or even further generation 8 core cpu and 5070/4070, or be happy with AI 300 series igpu. Buy more memory instead. You might one day want local AI/LLMs.
Problem is almost no laptop has Strix Halo. Not even the Frameworks.
And rumors are its successor APU may be much better, so the investment could be, err, questionable.
The more impressive thing is that they managed to get the Nvidia upgrade to be backwards compatible with existing Framework 16 models.
That's the push I need to really, truly believe they're committed to the goal of upgradablity. Too many "modular" products have come out where the "upgraded" modules were only available if you bought the newest version of the base product.
In the next year or so, I'll probably be buying a new laptop, and this has convinced me that Framework is probably the way to go.
I've been rocking a Framework 16 for about a year now and would happily recommend it. It's a bit more upfront, but I love knowing that I can fix or replace just about anything on it (pretty affordably too). It's just so refreshing to not have to worry about dumb shit like an obscure power adapter or port forcing my laptop into an early retirement.
It's not the lightest laptop I've ever had, but realistically not all that much different from my last gaming laptop. Now that I'm not a full time student anymore I could probably get away with one of the smaller models, but the form factor is pretty nice.
Overall, no major complaints!
i’ve had a framework 13 from a time before there was any other type of framework, and it’s a great laptop honestly. ive yet to do big upgrades, but just being able to repair it myself is awesome. one time i dented the chassis around where the power button was. no worries, just changed the input cover and bam 5 minutes later it’s like new.
my only complaint is that the battery life is atrocious. i heard it’s better (but still not great) on newer models tho
I have two Intel frameworks, and they both suck in regards to battery life
Buuut, I just have a big power bank in my backpack. Gives me at least 1 full charge when I'm on the go. And at home I just have a lighter laptop due to smaller battery
The only thing that pisses me off about framework, is their abysmal software and communication in that regard. It's basically impossible to get them to acknowledge or fix problems in their firmware
I have a 7840U with a 55HWr battery. I can squeeze out 7 hours. If I'm power using then 5-6 is typical. With the 63WHr battery, you'll get about 15% more time with it.
I have a newer gen 13 and yeah battery life is mediocre. I love literally everything else about it though so it’s ok.
I can’t remember the last time I wasn’t near an outlet though tbh.
I wonder if the amd models from framework perform as well as other oems in terms of battery life. The other guy in the thread said that his 2 Intel laptops perform worse due flawed firmware.
The only downside I have seen is that GSYNC will not work. The newer display supports it, put anyone upgrading an older Framework 16 with the new NVIDIA card will have to buy the screen upgrade as well if they need GSYNC.
That's not unexpected. Variable refresh rate (GSYNC and Freesync) has always needed the display to support it first.
Will freesync work with it?
Yeah it pushed me to finally put in an order, got to wait till December now as I'm in the third batch.
I wanted to wait till we had proof thst the graphics card would be updatable and a better one would be available as their AMD card is a bit too lightweight for me.
I would rather it had been a better AMD card, I have a 7900 xtx in my desktop, but i will take what I can get at this point, especially as I know I can upgrade later.