Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because "libs worse", yikes
Dbzer0 admin casually defending Uyghur genocide denial because "libs worse", yikes
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DB0 seems like a cool instance, but the tankie roach adjacency is a massive red flag.
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Indeed. All I wanna do is maths!
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That and being explicitly pro-ai
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I mean this is the reason they give when removing comments
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Well, that is a shitty comment.
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db0 also discourages voting in elections because "its a waste of time" lolol
Yea how is your anarchist community gonna decide things? Ask the community for agrees and disagrees with a proposal? Congrats, you just reinvented voting!
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It's funny how every anarchist community ends up becoming liberal, democratic and western
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I'm by no means an anarchist expert, but from my experience. Its downfall is that it can't scale, it will either implode or basically change into something else like you said.
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Awhile back I reposted an anti-soviet meme to like 7 Tankie comms and also Flippanarchy on DB0.
Can you guess which one got the most hate and a ban?
IDK if the entirety of DB0 is just a Tankie charade but I do know if it were then it wouldn't operate any differently than it does currently.
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They've gotten very strange in the past year or so. I've seen multiple dbzer0 users, including two admins, do complete 180s on tankie bullshit, and it's rather bizarre.
My best guess is that tankies offer them a sense of community, which is how many terminally online folk get drawn into it. People who have a deep desire for community will overlook moral issues if invited to be a part of that community, and even adopt, consciously or unconsciously, those positions in order to better 'fit in' with the community.
In a time when the real world is more recognizably hostile than ever, or at least for as long as most of us here have been alive (insofar as we are both aware of it and noting that it is backsliding rather than improving), online communities probably seem quite tempting to hew closer to.
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I think it's your usual anarchist thinking they're stronger together with a tankie, little do they know that the tankies will eat them every single time
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They've gotten very strange in the past year or so.
They've always been like that. Remember how they stuck to hexbear close to the reddit exodus? Most instances were calling to defed them so the dbzer0 users wanted the same but they were denied because "some of the hexbear users are worth talking to", so basically endure the rest of the deranged users so they can keep federating with a couple of decent ones.
Imo, it's just a bunch of technobros waving a fake anarchy flag and using that as an excuse for everything they do.
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"China is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs, but it's nothing like the genocide Israel is waging", saying that Chinese influence in Myanmar is a more serious violation by the PRC than the Uyghur genocide is, and leveling a judgement of "PTB" - "Power Tripping Bastard" - towards the moderator of this comm for banning someone who was literally denying the Uyghur genocide.
Combined, that's pretty distinctly defending Uyghur genocide denial, and I would say right up on the border of denying Uyghur genocide themselves.
If I said, "Israel is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Palestinians, but it's nothing like the genocide the Nazis waged", would you regard that as:
A. Borderline genocide denial of the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people by reducing the ongoing genocide to something that is simply 'shitty and authoritarian' while noting that 'real' genocide is more than that
OR
B. Just making casual comparisons
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The beauty of the fediverse is that if you don't like the actions of one instance's admin team you can simply move to another and create your own versions of communities they host, with blackjack and hookers.
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I think it's C: a bad faith comparison.
Whether something is genocide should be based on its own merits (are people being killed en masse because of their religion/race/etc?), not how much it resembles another genocide.
Here's a good definition:
The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group.
If that describes what's happening, then it's a genocide. If it's really close, it's probably genocide. What's going on with the Uyghurs is pretty close, and given we don't have transparency, we must assume it's a genocide. Likewise with Palestinians.
It's not complicated, just look at the definition and see how much lines up.
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That is literally defending one genocide.
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As a note: I've been vocal about not supporting any sorts of violence
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I like how they are gate keeping the term tankie
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Unruffled is the biggest reason I decided to block their instance. When I brought some issues up with db0 (the other admin) about it, he just ignored it and played dumb. One admin is actively a troll and the other, at best, doesn't know how to handle their shit.
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“China is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Uyghurs, but it’s nothing like the genocide Israel is waging”, saying that Chinese influence in Myanmar is a more serious violation by the PRC than the Uyghur genocide is, and leveling a judgement of “PTB” - “Power Tripping Bastard” - towards the moderator of this comm for banning someone who was literally denying the Uyghur genocide.
Combined, that’s pretty distinctly defending Uyghur genocide denial, and I would say right up on the border of denying Uyghur genocide themselves.
If I said, “Israel is being shitty and authoritarian towards the Palestinians, but it’s nothing like the genocide the Nazis waged”, would you regard that as:
A. Borderline genocide denial of the ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people by reducing the ongoing genocide to something that is simply ‘shitty and authoritarian’ while noting that ‘real’ genocide is more than that
OR
B. Just making casual comparisons
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Mass forced sterlization of Uighur women by the CCP is not a big deal?
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No, I get their point that just because you're comparing two genocides doesn't make either of them "not a big deal".
Although, imho, comparing genocides does seem like a kinda shitty thing to do for the same reason you don't respond to "I've had a traumatic and exhausting day" with "Oh yeah? Well my day was WAY worse!".
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Pug has been relentlessly defending the Democrats and relativising their unwavering support of Israel and its Genocide with the whole Trump is worst “hence” those who didn’t vote for the Democrats and their version of Genocide support de facto voted for Trump and his “worse” version of Genocide and “hence” are responsible for what’s happenning in Gaza.
They are an extremelly tribalist US Democrat Party member/supporter totally disconnected from objective reality and logic when it comes to anything related to that party, what its leaders say and the policy of the US under that party.
If due to being an extreme tribalist US Democrat Party member one absolutelly believes with zero skepticism in anything coming from their tribe’s “chiefs” be it directly or written in the News Media associated with that party (such as the NY Times) is “God’s honest truth” with no taint of Propaganda, given those leaders’ posture relative to China (whom they see as an adversary) and Israel (whom they unwaveringly support) its is absolutelly logical that one who believes their words are perfectly and indisputably true would believe pretty the worst possible things about China and the best possible things about Israel they read in US Media as “perfectly and undisputable true” which because of the very high level of Propaganda in the US means they would likely believe quite distorted takes on both nations.
The slant and the quality of propaganda coming from the US Democrat Party and its Media both against China and in favour of Israel is such that it makes sense that anybody who does not at all question the truthfullness of it would genuinelly believe that the Uyghur Genocide is actually worse than the Gaza Genocide given that they’ve been fed a steady diet of a subtlety-free slant on Israel as being good people who are the victims of terrorists and China being horrible authoritarian mosters and their perception of reality has thus been profoundly pulled away from objective reality on both sides to the point of them actually crossing.
Naturally, for such a person anybody who does not accept such information on China and Israel as absolutelly and indisputably true with no propaganda taint whatsoever, must be under the influence of some foreign dictatorship’s propaganda (the idea that such people might just be highly skeptical of US press and politicians doesn’t even “compute” in the mind of the extreme tribalist), and since nowadays it’s a far too obvious mark of being a mindless US tribalist muppet to call those people “Commies”, our Pug calls them “Tankies” instead since at the moment that’s the more socially acceptable version of that older insult.
Lord.
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"Okay but this other thing is worse," say people who firmly rejected moral relativism during the election.
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I love how YTB has banned me for no reason on that community
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You're instance banned from dbzero because of your anti asylum seeker rhetoric. The modlog is public my guy, you can see the reason.
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good, db0 is a tankie bar
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I'm not even anti asylum seeker. And even then, it's got nothing to do with YTB
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... Ah shit
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If you stick to just one account and didn't troll you'd be allowed to engage
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Username Checks out
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I’m genuinely not too educated on the Uighur situation but my vague sense is that it’s more cultural erasure, imperialism, and mass imprisonment than genocide but maybe I don’t know all the details. Have there been a lot of deaths over there?
These issues are always tough because it’s very obvious both that crimes against humanity are occurring but also that western powers are using them as propaganda to dehumanize the Chinese. I feel the same sense of discomfort when people exaggerate or hyperfocus on atrocities committed by Hamas. Even if it’s all true, the goal and context of this rhetoric is disturbing.
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Genocide can take many forms. It doesn't need to be instant death.
Local example, but here in Australia, the government thought to 'breed' the Aboriginal out
Very atrocious, and it has similarities to what China does with its imperialism towards other ethnic groups in Asia
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I’m genuinely not too educated on the Uighur situation but my vague sense is that it’s more cultural erasure, imperialism, and mass imprisonment than genocide but maybe I don’t know all the details.
And forced sterilization, and starvation, and 'disappearing' prisoners, and systemic violence in concentration camps...
So, you know, pretty similar to everything Israel was doing before October 7th, which was also quite fucking distinctly a genocide.
These issues are always tough because it’s very obvious both that crimes against humanity are occurring but also that western powers are using them as propaganda to dehumanize the Chinese. I feel the same sense of discomfort when people exaggerate or hyperfocus on atrocities committed by Hamas. Even if it’s all true, the goal and context of this rhetoric is disturbing.
... but the goal and context of the rhetoric of downplaying Uyghur genocide isn't disturbing?
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In the west I would have to say so. If we were in China or somewhere more aligned with them then things would be different.
Personally I don’t feel that pre-Oct 7th Palestine met the definition of a genocide either but I’ve had to accept that people want to throw this term around lightly for some reason these days.
It not being a genocide doesn’t make it in any way acceptable though, to be clear. These things are terrible but they could never bring about the destruction of an ethnically on their own.
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Genocide is a protected term. Only crimes against humanity in the Genoc region of Poland can be called that.
Had me in the first half
Otherwise it's just sparkling mass murder